Listen to the episode here.

This episode is in response to a move to pull key stories from the Air Force History Class. We believe in telling stories that have representation. These stories are filled with struggles and hardships. 

Theresa starts by sharing the WASPs of WWII. The Women’s Air Service Pilots bridged the gap created by men serving on the front lines. These 1074 women shuttled planes from factories, were test pilots, towed targets, and more. At least 30 of these women died during their duty during their two years of service. 

Angie regales us with the story of the Tuskegee Airmen. These men flew bombers and fighters during WWII. Although they were relegated to older planes, they outperformed many other units. 

This episode pairs well with: 
Aviatrix – Bessie Coleman
Aviatrix – Kathrine Sui Fun Cheung
The Harlem Hellfighters of WWI 

Transcript

Theresa: Hi, and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast, the podcast where two nerds are going to compulsively read history and then come back and regurgitate the stories we’ve only recently bellved into. I am host number one, I am Theresa and this…

Angie: Is ANGI I am host number two. Ta-da-da-da.

Theresa: Ta-da. And it is actually my turn to go first. Okay, well my turn to wait first then. Yeah, it is. Now my story comes from recently we had a very interesting happen where in a push to make certain dominant culture types feel better, parts of history were requested to be removed from the Air Force Academy’s history class. One of those stories was going to be the wasps. I had big feelings over this, so did lots of humans. And so Angie and I decided we were going to dive in, we were going to cover these things, we were going to get an episode out immediately. And then the rest of the…

Angie: Sorry, I was going to say for the first time in podcast history we knew what the other one was going to talk about.

Theresa: Yeah, and we were going to do all of these things and we were going to join forces and get a story out immediately. And then the internet rose up and they were like, slow your roll. This is our military history.

We will teach military history and history class for a military program. So we got you. Yeah, we still decided to continue doing this, but we didn’t feel the need to push the episode out immediately. So we did the slow, controlled, less frenetic, but I’m going to tell the stories of the wasps.

I’m so excited. My sources. I have the Wings of Gold book, which is the story of the first women naval aviators by Beverly Weintrop. The Army website has a post on the women Air Force service pilots. Then there’s a couple of podcasts I got into. The stuff you missed in history class, they have a two part series on wasps of WW2 with Catherine Sharp-Landek.

And then behind the wings, the women Air Force service pilots at WW2. Are you ready? Yes, I am.

Okay. So the wasps, as we know them, there were 1074 women who made up the women Air Force service pilots and they flew for a very short period of time. They flew from 1942 to 1944. Now it is, I’m going to jump back and forth a little bit in history until we’re able to fully settle down. Okay. Right now, imagine we’re in the late 1830 or 1930s, 1930s, that makes more sense. And there is this concept that is floated around the military where they say, what if we used women to ferry the planes from one place to another?

You know, maybe from factory to base, maybe from one base to another base, you know, just to kind of shuttle them around. It’s not accepted. In 1941, we have a dude named General Henry Arnold who goes by hat. He goes on to say that the use of women pilots serve no military purpose. He’s got big fields against. He just like, not in my military.

Of course. Now, all of this changes when there’s the bombing of Pearl Harbor. At this point, we have every able-bodied man just getting shipped off. Oh, your able-bodied and can fly a plane?

Even better. Jump in this cockpit. Now, as it’s happening, we have these factories that are producing commercial airplanes and cars. They get reconfigured to turn out war planes, as you would suspect. This is the Rosie the Riveter movement, right? Between 1939 and 1944, the US went from the number 44th in air power to number one.

Angie: I did not know that. That is insane.

Theresa: We went, we took our eyes, adjusted them to the prize and sprinted.

Angie: Our total number of planes. I don’t know why, but like in my brain, the, that are, are not the Air Force itself, but our Air Force, like our, our air power was always number one. That is such an American thing to say.

Theresa: I mean, I don’t think you’re wrong because I feel like once we leveled up our Air Force, we never scaled back down.

Angie: I don’t, I don’t think it’s within our ability to do that.

Theresa: No, we’d have to, we’d have to break through a couple of systematic barriers to be able to, to scale down. Our total number of planes went from 2,500 to around 300,000. Cool. So just a little bit of an increase there. Our factories are turning out fighters, bombers and training trainers at the rate of about one an hour. Bez nuts. It is insane.

That is how you go from 44th to number one. Facts. Yeah, absolutely. Now it’s at this point, we’re going to need somebody to fly them from the factory to where we meet them.

Angie: Oh yeah, because they should just put them on a train.

Theresa: Yeah, that makes sense. Now at this point, our man, half Arnold, he’s getting hounded by his colonels. He’s got a woman named Nancy Love Harness, who is an air racer and test pilot. He’s also getting hounded by a woman named Jacqueline Cochran.

She’s the women’s world speed record holder. Yes. So there’s some notable people in his ear. It’s Cochran who’s led several American aviators, all women, to do this same ferrying shuttle taxi service for the British Air Transport Auxiliary. So right, she’s already stood up this program.

She understands what it needs to happen and she’s saying, let the women do it. We are equipped. This gets Arnold to realize he has tons of qualified pilots willing and able to shuttle these planes wherever they need to go. Sex.

I mean, it’s women who are the one stateside producing the planes and it’s the women who are the ones who are available. Now I get to bring us back to episode four for this part of the background. Are you ready? Mm-hmm.

Okay. So after WWI, we’ve got a lot of cheap surplus biplanes and we have many of these World War I pilots that come back. They don’t have much to do, so they open flight schools. So we’ve got tons of people who are learning to fly. And that’s when our girl, Bessie Coleman from episode four, she wants to take these flying lessons, but she can’t because she’s black, so she has to fly to France and learn over there.

Okay. So, but this just goes to show that this is how prevalent flight school was. So while all of these other humans, namely white, are getting their licenses, we have during this post-WWI era, we have Charles Lindbergh, he’s giving $5 plane rights to keep the float.

Angie: That seems, I don’t know why, but that seems so expensive for that moment.

Theresa: It’s like $82 in today’s money.

Angie: Okay, never mind. Whatever. That’s a great flight.

Theresa: Right. Now I’m not thinking that you’re going transatlantic on $82. All right. Probably just drone block. Right. But it’s still kind of an interesting thing. So we have women who are advancing their own careers in aviation. They’re even teaching flight. So they’re earning their flight lessons or their flight licenses, and then they’re turning around and teaching others. And this is during around the same time we have Amelia Earhart putting together the 99. So this is the golden era of the ABA tricks. Yes.

We love our flying babes. Yep. Got a lot of thought for sure. I know, we’ve actually covered a fair number and I’m really proud of that.

Me too. The Army website says that Cochrane established the Women’s Flying Training Attachment or the WFTD at Howard Hughes Airport in Houston, Texas. And this happened on November 16th of 1942. Her initial class is 25 women and they’re supposed to have 200 hours of flight time and a commercial license. So that’s a pretty high bar. I mean, because remember the Chinese Amelia Earhart, Catherine Leif Fung, I can’t remember. I’d have to look up. Shung? Shung? Shung? Let me look it up because that’s going to drive me mad. I’m on it.

Angie: That one. Yeah. I’m on it. I’m going to find it for you. I’ll interrupt. You can keep going when I’ve got it.

Theresa: All right. Catherine Sui Fung Chung. She only had like what, 35, 20 hours of flight? Yeah, it was like 27 hours. Yeah, ridiculously low amount. Yeah. So that’s kind of a good thing. In addition to ferrying these planes, they’re testing them, they’re delivering planes for repair. The WFTD also perform check flights. They’re putting flight time on these brand new engines, towing targets for anti-aircraft gunnery practice and then sort of tracking missions. They’re also instructing their male pilot cadets. Yes.

Angie: Now how to be faster, stronger, better, every single, every step of the way.

Theresa: Oh, and did I mention that these planes aren’t built for them? Because women are so much shorter than men, so they’re having to not modify the plane because the plane’s going to be flown by a dude here next week. So they’re having to like sit on things, scoot closer to the front of the chair, like… All the things. All the things.

Yeah. Our man, Hap Arnold, he’s needing to overcome some significant bias against these women pilots. By the time he starts to create the first core of women to fly for the US, there’s over 3,000 licensed pilots to choose from. All women. And he’s gotten additional 25,000 handraisers who are willing to learn.

Angie: Yes. I love that. I would have been one of them. Now they end up…

Theresa: Prevert to go. Yeah. I mean, you can only work with what you got. Yeah. They accept 1,830 applicants. These women have to pay their own way to Sweetwater, Texas. When they get there, they get to pay for their own uniforms. Of course. And just…

When Boosta don’t fit. And it’s funny how they say that because just like our female combat pilots from World War II, on the Russian front, the Night Witches, their uniforms are mostly cobbled together from the men’s uniforms. Yep. That feels so…

Angie: Like a commonality among any time women are like, yeah, we can do the thing.

Theresa: They also get to pay for their own room and board. Of course they do. That’s good for them. Yeah. Applicants need to be 18 to 35 years old, at least 5’4″. They need to have a high school diploma and a pilot’s license. And by this point, once they start the WOS program, it’s only 35 hours of flight time. That’s insane. It’s absolutely insane to be.

Well, yeah. I mean, it just goes to show like this is wartime you need to let more people through. Do you’re going to train them? But they need to have something. Yeah.

100%. So they also need to pass an army physical. And it’s during this time, they spend 30 weeks living in a military-style barracks where they’re marched, trained, drilled. This is the exact same routine as their male counterparts. So they are going to the same…

Angie: But they’re paying their room and board. Yes. That’s so infuriating.

Theresa: The only difference in what they’re learning is that they have a less combat focus on skills like gunnery and formation flying, which makes no sense. They’re not going to the front. We’re just going to deliver. Yeah. But they are getting 560 hours of ground school, which includes things like studying weather, navigation, physics, aircraft systems, Morse code, the gamut. They’re doing everything there. They also have 210 hours of flight training.

Okay. They may have learned how to fly already, but now they need to learn how to fly like the army wants them to fly. Right. Or the Air Force right.

Angie: Military. How’s the military want you to fly?

Theresa: Now, of those 1830 applicants, we have 1074 wasps who win their wings. Get it? Now, from here, they go on and are distributed among 122 air bases around the country. They’re flying planes from the factories. Just like I said earlier, they’re the test pilots. They’re even flying targets for target practice. And apparently that part is the one that is the most boring.

Angie: Seeing a moving target. Yeah. Love that. I know the target’s attached to them like a banner behind, but still like that’s the boring part of the job.

Theresa: Now, of those over a thousand wasps that graduate, they end up having a better washout rate than the 50% of the male pilot cadets.

Angie: It’s funny you should say that.

Theresa: You know, like better, faster, stronger, and in heels. And backwards. Mm-hmm. Our man, half Arnold, he addressed a graduating class of wasps saying this amazing quote that I’m going to read to you. A slip of a girl could fight the controls of a B17 in heavy weather. Now, in 1944, it’s on record that women can fly as well as men. Certainly, we haven’t been able to build an airplane you can’t handle. From the AT6s to the B29s, you have flown them around like veterans. One of the wasps has even test flown our new jet plane. You and more than 900 of your sisters have shown that you can fly wingtip to wingtip with your brothers. If there ever was a doubt in anyone’s mind that women can become skillful pilots, the wasp had to spell that doubt.

I do not look upon the wasp and the job they have done in this war as a project or an experiment. A pioneering adventure? Yes.

Solian experiment? No. The wasps are an accomplishment. Now, here’s the next part of that quote, which is nuts. The B26 and the B29 bombers are notoriously hard to fly. Wasp trained alongside men in learning how. In fact, it was wasps that taught the pilot or the pilots of the atomic bombs for their faithful mission. The catch phrase for this was if a woman can fly it, it must be safe.

Angie: I have so many feels right now. That is insane. Oh, I had no idea that it was women that were teaching. Like that’s enough. Okay, I’m going to be quiet. I have, I can’t put my words in a, in a functioning sentence. Yeah.

Theresa: I mean, like all of those things were just so much to like wrap my brain around, right? Yeah. Now, despite all this work the women are doing, we’ve got some base commanders that are less than happy to have them on their scrout, right?

Angie: Is it the same like bad mojo as having, having a women, women on a ship?

Theresa: It’s just one of those things like saying that they wish they would just go home and knit socks.

Angie: Of course.

Theresa: And that’s what most members say right now. Of course. Now, as these women are doing their jobs, men would gawk at them. We have male air traffic controllers who get flummox when they hear a woman’s voice on the radio.

Men are so dumb. Women did land, their jobs don’t get easier. Once landed, they would need to find their own accommodations. It’s not uncommon to hear that once you land, there’s no suitable place on base to sleep. They’d literally be driven off the premises. The only time I find no space for women, hilarious, is when Joris Payne is imprisoned and they don’t have female accommodations. So they put her up in the Monte Carlo or in the Four Seasons. Like, I mean, that feels appropriate to me, albeit hilarious.

Angie: It feels like the right thing to do, honestly. Yeah.

Theresa: The women’s aircraft are routinely sabotaged. They’ll try to start their engines and find they’ve been stuffed with rags. One time, a rudder cable had been partially cut. There was at least one confirmed wasp death as a result of sabotage. And when her fuel tank was recovered, there was sugar inside it.

Angie: As I said, did anybody put sugar in the fuel tank? You know, the most insurrating part of this is these women are working to arm the men for war. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not just saying, hey, we want to be in a boys club. It’s saying, like, we are equipped to help you.

Theresa: There’s nobody else we can help. Right.

Angie: Like, you need us more than you think. Right. Yeah. Oh, that’s so insurrating.

Theresa: 30 wasps in total died during duty. Okay. They received no military honors. There’s no transportation home. And just like if you watch the eight triple six about the black women sorting the mail for World War II, when these women die, it’s friends, family, and fellow wasps who take a collection to send their sister home because the military whom they died for will not assist.

That’s infuriating. Our man, half Arnold, he asked General William E. Han, the chief or the deputy chief of air staff permission to commission into was directly as service pilots. This would have been done for the air transport command routinely for male civilian pilots.

And the cop, troller general of the army air forces ruled against these practices on January 13, 1944. So our man, half, he’s turned, he’s turned a corner and he is all four women in this movement.

Angie: And he’s seen what they can do. Like how do you not turn that corner? Easy. You’re, you’re General Han. Well, that’s true.

Theresa: So we have our female test pilot who started this program, Cochran Arnold, they go back to Congress. And that’s where Bill HR 4219. And this is a bill to make the last and the women’s service within the U.S. Air Force.

Like a whole thing. It’s been ignored since its introduction in September of 41. And then it’s on June 21, 1944.

It was defeated by 19 votes despite vigorous lobbying efforts. Okay. The wasps were disbanded December 20, 1944. And Arnold’s letter of notification to wasp stated, quote, when we needed you, you came through and have served most commendably under very difficult circumstances. But now the war situation has changed and the time has come when your volunteer services are no longer needed. The situation is that if you were to continue in service, you’d be replacing instead of releasing our young men.

I know the wasp wouldn’t want that. I want you to know that I appreciate your war service and the AAF will miss you. When their service ended, they got to pay their own way home. Of course.

Angie: Because we, you know, couldn’t get them a bus ticket.

Theresa: Or the Air Force couldn’t manage military transport to bases close to their homes.

Angie: Well, why would we do that?

Theresa: Because we do it for the men. Okay. But as all of this is done, we’ve got the memory of the wasp and this phase over time. Even though this is faded, there are 13 million Americans who in July of 1943 saw the Life Magazine cover that the story began, quote, the time honored belief that the army is flying is for men has gone into the trash can. That’s the start of that.

Yes. Even though that article existed, 13 million readers saw it. The wasp were largely forgotten by the public in the military brass who’d soon be relearning all of those lessons. It’s not until decades later where the wasp finally recognized for their service. And decades later, they finally get this thing like military pensions, the congressional gold medal, the military’s, the military’s, the military’s, the military’s, the military’s, and the right to be buried in Arlington National Cemetery.

Angie: Well, at least they got it. I have no functioning words. I’m, I’m equally impressed and mad.

Theresa: You know, this is kind of my penchant of story-breaking.

Angie: Everybody’s got a skill set.

Theresa: September 20th, 1977, there’s a select House subcommittee on veteran fairs. They hear the testimony on HR 3277. And this is a bill that recognizes WAPS service as active duty in the armed forces and entitled them to veterans benefits. It’s strongly supported by both houses of Congress and Senator Barry Goldwater, who’d flown with the loss during during World War II. He led the movement to get the bill passed.

The bill is vehemently overposed by the American Legion on the grounds that it would quote, degenerate the, or denigrate the term veteran, so that it’ll never again have the same value that it presently attaches to it. Excuse me? Yeah. So the controversy goes back and forth.

We have the Veterans Administration opposing the bill, and we have the Department of Defense supporting it. Wild. Okay.

I know. Goldwater attaches the bill as an amendment to the GI Bill Improvement Act. October 19th of 1977, the committee chairs plan to strip the WASP amendment during the reconciliation process. This prompts two women representatives of the House, Representative Margaret Heckler and Representative Lindy Boggs to take action to support it. Finally, everybody comes to an agreement and they certify the WASP that they’ve been de facto military personnel during the war, and the WASP amendment is not going to be stripped. This means that all of their, like, so the Air Force certified that WASP and in making their determination use the discharge papers of WASP Helen Porter in 1944, which read, quote, this is to certify that Helen Porter honorably served in actual federal service of the Army of the United States. And this is the same warning used in 1944 for all honorable discharges in the Army.

And as a result, it passes the House with unanimous consent and President Carter signed the bill into law in November 23rd of 1977. Wow. So these women had to fight long and hard. And there is in the book Wings of Gold, they talk about one woman’s fight to get buried in Arlington. And just how when she dies, everybody around her has to pick up her cause to get her buried there.

Angie: She deserves to be buried there. Right. That is infuriating.

Theresa: Thanks. I mean, but you know, honestly, it’s stories like this as infuriating as they are, they do go to show that this is not a new fight. This is an old fight. Yeah. We’ve made a ground way. Now we just need to keep going.

Angie: That’s true. That is true. And aside from that, it is a story that absolutely needs to be told. Because the loss of the bad, the ugly, all of it. Right. Yeah. We can’t, we can’t not know.

Theresa: And the second you say we need to strip this story from the program, that means we need to double down and tell it twice as loud. For everyone in the back. Yeah. Yeah.

Angie: 100% agree with you. Well, then I guess it’s my turn, huh? It is. Okay. Well, you’re going to love this. Um, one of my sources is the National Park Service. I love you. I love you too.

I’m delighted to get to say that. Tuskegee University is my other main source, and the National World War II Museum in New Orleans does an interview with a gentleman that I did not include his name at the top of my list. Of course, I believe it is Dr. Daniel Hallman. He’s the foremost expert on the Tuskegee Airmen, so the National World War II Museum out in New Orleans does an interview with him on the book that was being released at the time.

I’ll let’s say I am doing the Tuskegee. They should also be talked about and never forgotten. I wanted to know more about these guys for a while, so I thought this was the no time like the present, you know? Let me tell you about a few things that have to take place to get where we’re going. There are three government initiatives that take place between the years of 38 and 40, and all three of these are instrumental in making the way for people of color to become military pilots. However, because I was curious, do you know who the first black American fighter pilot was?

I don’t. Neither did I, and like our girl Bessie Coleman, he too had to go to France to get his pilot’s license and fly for France, but he was born and raised in the US. His name was Eugene Ballard, and he was a fighter pilot in World War I. So that was fun. I had to know. I was like, wait a minute, I have questions.

I need to know who the first was. So back to the initiatives. The information on the initiatives is provided by the Tuskegee Airmen Organization, and I think that’s important to note because they do such a great job of making it really clear and concise so like your layman can actually read the legalese of initiatives put out forth by the government, you know? December 27th of 1938, President Roosevelt announces an experimental civilian pilot training program. This program was going to begin in early 39, and it involved 330 openings at 13 colleges.

None of them were Black colleges. On January 12th of 1939, President Roosevelt asked Congress to pass legislation to authorize a permanent civilian pilot training or CPT program. The CPT Training Act includes a provision that had been inserted by Representative Everett Dirksen, which called for the program not to exclude anyone on the basis of race. Most of the colleges and university that took part in the permanent CPT program were white or predominantly white. However, there were six Black colleges that also took part. There’s a handful of the Black cadets or students that attended predominantly White universities in the Northeast and Northwest, and I think that’s kind of important to point out because we’re still in the 30s, right?

And I’m sure going to a white university is not an easy thing. No. So that’s already something that’s happening. For the second initiative in 1940, Congress passes the Selective Service and Training Service Act, which was signed into law by Roosevelt on September 16th of 1940. This act is also known as the Burke-Wadsworth Bill. It was the first peacetime draft in U.S. history. It required all American males between the ages of 21 and 35 to register for the draft. The final version of the bill would contain two provisions, 3A and 4A, which spoke to the discrimination question. Section 3A states, quote, within the limits of the quota determined, any person, regardless of race or color, shall be afforded an opportunity to volunteer for induction.

Section 4A states, quote, in the selection of training of men under the act and in the interpretation and execution of the provision of this act, there shall be no discrimination against any person on account of race or color. And I would like to say that’s very forward-thinking of you, but it should have never been a conversation in the first place. Yep. And finally, the third thing that happens also in the year of 1948, the War Department announces the Civil Aeronautics Authority in cooperation with the U.S. Army. They would begin the development of, quote, colored personnel for the aviation service. This paved the way for people of color to train as pilots and vital support personnel. So not just the pilots, but we’re taking, like, mechanics, flight crews, things on the ground, right?

Mm-hmm. The first aviation class of 13 cadets begins July 19, 1941. While talking about the Tuskegee Airmen, the National Park Service has, quote, yes, they were the first African-American fighter pilots and crew in the U.S. Army Air Corps, and no, they were not all from Tuskegee. The Tuskegee Airmen were trailblazers, pioneers, and leaders in the fight against fascism and racism. These men were the cream of the crop, many of whom already had bachelors and masters degrees when they first began flight training in July of 1941. These men and women fought two wars and won both of them with skill and bravery. Thanks, National Park Service.

Theresa: Is that implying that there were female Tuskegee Airmen?

Angie: I think it was implying, because I, in the research that I was doing, I never found any notation of a female pilot, but there were definitely ground crew and flight crew and things of that nature that were, like, logistic support. Okay. That were, those positions were filled by both genders.

Okay. And I think that’s what it means, because one of the other things that’s really kind of special about the Tuskegee is it’s not just the pilots themselves that are called Tuskegee Airmen. It’s the whole package, right? Like, and I think that’s really special. The National World War II Museum says that they are one of the most celebrated units in World War II history. So, the Tuskegee Airmen were the first African-American military pilots in U.S. military service.

There were 992 Airmen trained at Tuskegee. This would include single-engine fighter pilots, twin-engine bombers. There would be liaison. There would be service pilots. And then the total number of Airmen, including ground personnel, like I had mentioned earlier, that would number more than 14,000. Wow.

That’s kind of a thing, right? The pilots who graduated from advanced pilot training at Tuskegee Army Airfield went through a super intense training process. Their primary training was eight weeks, but then it was followed by another 18 weeks of basic and advanced flight training.

Their days would start at 5 a.m. and not end until 10 p.m. Monday through Saturday for eight months straight. Oh, yeah. While they were the first black pilots, they were also the first to fly in combat missions overseas, meaning the first black pilots to fly in combat missions overseas as well. So they’re mostly remembered for their time in the Mediterranean Theater, which I think is where they’re most, like, famous for, you know, like, that’s what we equate them with. The National Park Service says, quote, despite the many hours of flight training and the enemies they face at home and away, the Tuskegee Airmen still have one of the best records out of any fighter group during World War II. The Airmen flew over 180 combat missions without losing a single bomber. When the Airmen were first deployed during World War II, they did not have the best or up-to-date airplanes to use. It’s shocking. However, the crew, chief, flying chiefs, and mechanics were very creative in finding ways to fix the airplanes so they could head back out to complete the missions that they were assigned.

It’s a genius. Now, the conversation between the National World War II Museum and Dr. Daniel Holman, he says, basically, they’re flying with the 15th Air Force, the 332nd Fighter Group. It’s got squadrons, the 99th, the 100th, the 301, and the 302 fighter squadrons. They are…they flew primarily bomber escort missions, and they gain a reputation for excellence, like, right off the bat. Between early June of 44 and the end of April 45, they would fly a total of 312 missions. 179 of them were bomber escort missions.

There would only be seven missions where they lost their bombers to enemy aircraft. Wow. Which is insane to me.

Dr. Holman goes on to say that, quote, the total number of Tuskegee Airmen escorted bombers shot down by enemy fighters by my research was 27, while the average number lost by each of the other six fighter escort groups in the 15th Air Force was 46. So half, or roughly. Gee. They were that, like, dedicated to their…to their excellence, and we’re not flying the best…with the best equipment.

Theresa: Right. So… Imagine what they could do if they had an equal playing field. Right.

Angie: So it’s safe to say they were so successful because their training was rigorous and it was strict. The history tells us about half of the cadets would wash out, but that wasn’t just for black cadets.

White cadets going through the same training on their bases had similar, if not the same, washout rate. That’s just what we covered with the loss. Right.

And thus I said, funny, you should say that. I think that speaks to the caliber of the instructors as well. And one of the things that I wanted to point out, I didn’t put in my notes, but I think that there is this sort of dark cloud that… may suggest that the instructors were not great to them. That’s…excuse me. That’s not entirely truthful. Most of the airmen would report that there was a great rapport and respect between the instructors and the pilots.

So I just wanted to say that. Like, it wasn’t all terrible, but it was definitely not the best conditions either, you know? Well, I can only imagine the stress.

Well, yeah. I mean, you’re dealing with just the stress of becoming a fighter pilot, but you’re also dealing with segregation. You’re dealing with the South in the 40s.

Like, there’s a lot of things that are adding up to make a really interesting war for them, you know? Right. I think you’ve probably heard of them also being called redtails. That’s because a lot of their missions were flown in red-tailed P-51 Mustangs. And I’m not sure that it’s clear, but they were called the Tuskegee Airmen because they were trained in the Tuskegee Army Airfield in Alabama, which seemed pretty clear, but, you know… Yeah. I was curious. Like, I want to know, is that actually why they’re called that, or did I just make that up for my own memory? Like… Yeah.

Theresa: No qualms whatsoever.

Angie: None whatsoever. Yeah, no. There was open opposition, of course. Some leaders of the War Department resisted the idea because partly they believed them to be inferior, and partly because pilots are officers, and there were those that did not want black officers over white enlisted men.

Theresa: I just like all of this. This is the same kind of nonsense that causes a dude to put sugar in a fellow fighter’s fuel tank knowing it’s going to kill her. Right.

Angie: And it’s equally, like, it’s so frustrating to know that these guys, these pilots, are serving the same country. Like, we are on the same side. Could you just make it slightly easier for, like, the day?

Theresa: Yeah. Could friendly fire just happen on accident? Do we have to be actually pointing?

Angie: Right. Hulman, he points out that the NAACP initially wanted to integrate the pilot’s training instead, and they opposed the establishment of segregated black flying training at Tuskegee. However, the NAACP eventually supports the Tuskegee flight training program because they, quote, realized it would be better to have segregated black military flight training than to have no black military flight training.

Are you freaking kidding me? Anyway, now, not all the leadership thought incorporating black men was a bad idea. Some of the officers were really supportive, but there were also those that resisted the idea in every way possible, even when they had been deployed. Once deployed, they would deal with racist problems overseas. For example, one of the white commanders in the meditraining fleet, who I did not deign to write their name down in my notes because I don’t deserve it, think it deserves to be there, but he reports that they’re underperforming. An actual official inquest from the War Department discovers they’re doing exactly what they should be doing. Excuse me. You’re that petty right now?

Theresa: That’s the equivalent of a fake 911 call.

Angie: It really is. Are you serious right now? Not only are they doing exactly what they should be doing, they’re doing it better. Get it together, people. By the time they were done, the Tuskegee Airmen’s fighter group, which includes the 332nd, they’re made up of several squads, the 99th being the first. They would end with the largest fighter group in the Army Air Force at the time. Whoa.

And I don’t know if you know this, but my nerd heart loves this so much. The first squad to be deployed was the 99th. Do you know why that matters to me?

Theresa: Because Amelia Earhart’s 99?

Angie: Well, there’s that, but it’s a Star Wars reference. The bad batch are the 99. Oh. As that makes my heart so happy, like I had to confirm with my youngest son, it’s the 99, right?

Like, I’m thinking on the same train, right? And he’s like, yep, they sure were, mom. I’m going to say thanks. Gotta go take notes now.

Bye. Fun fact, the first three Black generals in the Air Force were all Tuskegee Airmen. I didn’t know that. With that said, can I tell you about some of the individual men? I would hope that you do.

Okay. Colonel Benjamin O. Davis, Jr. was a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and the son of the Army’s first Black general. He commanded the 99, then the 332nd Fighter Group, and then the 477 Composite Group.

So he’s busy. Colonel David would become the first Black general in the United States Air Force. In 45, he became the first Black base commander in the United States.

In 47, the first Black wing commander in the Air Force. Wow. That’s like, cool.

That’s awesome. Then there’s General Daniel Chappy James. He didn’t serve overseas in combat during World War II because at the time he belonged to the 477 Bombardment Group, which did not, they didn’t head to Europe. But he also served in the Korean War and Vietnam. He rose to become the first Black force our general, not only in the Air Force, but in any of the services. Dude.

Right? Tuskegee Airmen Brigadier General Charles McGee flew a total of 409 fighter combat missions in World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. In each war, he would fly at least 100 missions.

That’s a lot. Then there’s Lieutenant Colonel George Hardy, who also flew in all three wars, but he flew fighter pilots. So he flew fighters in World War II, bombers in Korea, and gunships in Vietnam. So he was diversifying his skills. I love this.

Theresa: We all need to be able to feel the pivot. Right?

Angie: Colonel Lee Archer shot down three enemy planes in one day. Oh, there were three others of the Tuskegee Airmen who were also able to accomplish that feat, which I think is super cool. Colonel Roscoe Brown was one of three Tuskegee Airmen to have shot down a German ME-262 jet, even though the German jet was much faster than the T-51’s the Tuskegee Airmen flew at the time. Tuskegee Airmen would shoot down a total of 112 enemy airplanes in World War II. 112.

I love this. And if you think about it, now my understanding, I don’t know a ton about aviation tactics, but my understanding is for the bulk of their mission, they were escort planes. Their job was to get the bomber where it needed to go. So we’re also shooting down enemy planes in the meantime.

Theresa: But that’s clear in the past. As they’re escorting. Right. You know? Yeah.

Angie: When they return home, they offboard their boats from a different door. So they wouldn’t see or receive the welcome home that the white men got when they left the ships. This immediately, go ahead.

Theresa: And I just say because I’m Navy Brett, so I would stand on the dock when the aircraft carrier would pull in and watch the sailors get off and see everyone welcome family and friends. Right. That is a very joyous experience. The energy at that dock is at a fever pitch. Right.

Angie: Now, can you imagine these guys are just like ushered out the side door? So they don’t, they don’t even get to like hear that. Which is what? Yeah. I don’t understand. This reminds them of the conditions they fought for.

So much so that many of the Tuskegee Airmen become active participants in the civil rights movements of the 50s and 60s. Surprise, surprise. I know. Shocking, right? The Tuskegee Airmen earn a total of 96 distinguished flying crosses during World War II. The 99 earns a total of three distinguished unit citations. In 2007, President Bush unveils a Congressional gold medal to honor all of the Tuskegee Airmen collectively for their World War II service.

I want to close my portion of the story with this quote from the conversation between Dr. Halman and the National War II Museum, who I mentioned earlier. Quote, the Tuskegee Airmen have become famous as the first African-American pilots in the United States military service who proved black men could fly advanced aircraft in combat as well as their white counterparts. The first black commander of an Air Force fighter squadron was a Tuskegee Airman. The first black commander of an Air Force fighter group was a Tuskegee Airman. The first black commander of an Air Force bombardment group and the bombardment squadron was a Tuskegee Airman. The first black commander of an Air Force base was a Tuskegee Airman. The first black commander of an Air Force wing was a Tuskegee Airman. The first black generals in the Air Force, Benjamin O. Davis Jr., Daniel Chappy James, and Lucius Theus were all Tuskegee Airmen. The first black four-star general was a Tuskegee Airman. Right? I have pictures.

Theresa: Please, thank you.

Angie: Because how could I not? I…can you see my screen?

Theresa: Okay, so she’s got a military poster of a black man in a flight suit with his parachute on, goggles on his forehead, and it says, Keep Us Flying By War Bonds.

Angie: I love it. If you’ll notice who’s sitting in the passenger seat here.

Theresa: It is a woman. So there is a man in the pilot seat. There is another man under the wing. That woman is Miss Roosevelt. Oh! Oh, fantastic!

Angie: She had a great afternoon flying with them. Good! I love the big smile on her face. Yeah, ear to ear plastered.

Theresa: And the guy under the wing has this very devil-made hair, kind of, you know, like… Yes.

Angie: Like, they all look like they were sharing a joke and the photographer didn’t hear it. Like, that’s what I think when I see this picture. It makes me so happy. Then we have this.

Theresa: Okay, so now we’ve got a picture of a bulk of pilots all decked out in their flight gear in front of a big plane. I don’t even want to hazard to guess what it is, but it’s a big one.

Angie: It is a big one. Right? This was one of their badges.

Theresa: Oh, I love that. It is a badge with a black panther breathing fire on a yellow stripe with embellishments on it, and it’s on a black background. And it is labeled the…what is that? The 33rd…

Angie: The 33rd…332nd Expeditionary Operations Group. Awesome. This right here is Colonel Benjamin O. Davis.

Theresa: She’s showing me a picture of a man who’s got his hip jetted out. He’s pressing his hand on the side of the airplane. It could be him washing his Ford F-150.

Angie: It could be.

Theresa: I know. That is the casualness there.

Angie: He’s the first gentleman I spoke about individually. I thought it was so fun to be able to make that correlation. And here is the…this image is the remaining airmen receiving their congressional medal on her inner-southern.

Theresa: Can I just say that I love that they are all…or not all, because the black man in the foreground is wearing a navy blue suit that matches George Bush’s. But the rest of the people, their blazers are vibrant and colorful, and their personality is shown, and I adore that. Oh, right.

Angie: It makes me so happy. And I love that they’re all the…so there are four gentlemen behind Bush and the first gentleman, and they all have this sort of, well, okay, then, smile on their face. Right.

It’s so much fun. So that’s what I learned about the Tuskegee Airmen, and I think everybody should Google all the things you can possibly find because their stories are phenomenal. And didn’t…what they went through.

Theresa: Cuba Getting Jr., didn’t he do a film about the Tuskegee Airmen? I remember watching it and thinking it was so good.

Angie: There are a couple of films about the Tuskegee Airmen. One of them is called Red Tails. I cannot remember which one is the one that’s doing it. It’s Cuba Getting Jr.

Theresa: But you’re right. I’d have to go look, but we could do that. I’ve enjoyed all of this. Thank you. Me too. So if you’ve got stories that you’re thinking, OMG, I can’t wait, I really hope they cover my story next week. You can email us. We’d love to hear it.

We read every single email we get. Unhinged.historypod@gmail.com. And then honestly, there’s a lot of new people here listening. We would love it if just 1% of you went through and reviewed us on the app that you’re hearing us now. And if you’re thinking, I’ll let the other 99% do that. No, no, no, you do it. Please and thank you. Yes, because this helps us in ways that you can’t even imagine. It’s a free podcast. So just that one little thing super helpful.

Angie: And on that, if you’re Vermont adjacent, can you drive across the border and talk to your friends? Okay.

Theresa: So what Auntie’s referencing is we did thousands and thousands of downloads in the US of those thousands. Every state showed up. Vermont, you stinky, janky group of listeners or not listeners in your case. We have questions. We’ve got comments. We’ve covered the maple syrup heist. What do you want from us? Like, what are we missing? You can let us know. Unhinged.historypod .com. And on that note, goodbye.

Theresa: Bye.