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Join your favorite unhinged historians as they bring you some crazy stories. Today Theresa shares the tale of Molly Williams, the first female firefighter, who was also the first Black woman firefighter. Oh, and she did it at the age of 71.

Not to be outdone, Angie regales us with Lilian Wyles, the first female inspector of Scotland Yard. This barrier-breaking woman paved the way for women in the police force in the UK, and you need to hear her story.

These stories pair well with:

Stagecoach Mary
“Mrs. Sherlock Holmes” / Grace Quakenbos

Transcript

Theresa: Hi, and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast. The podcast where two people who were perfect strangers prior to became friends started swapping history memes and then recording the conversations that, for stories we’ve just recently learned. I’m host one. I’m Teresa. And that. I’m host two. 

Angie: I’m Angie. Well, I totally catch you off. I’m sorry. 

Theresa: Yeah, you know what? I’m used to this and I promise to make it up to you. I’ll do it back. 

Angie: Thanks. You’re welcome. I know. Gosh. Love this for me. Tell me your story. I’m excited. Okay. So. Because I legit, we don’t have a theme this month, so I’m like. 

Theresa: So what you got? What are you bringing? And this is like, you know, wildcard. 

Theresa: So I am going to tell you the story of Molly Williams. Okay. I can’t say I know that name. I know. I waited like there could have been a light bulb and I was like, if there is a light bulb, or she goes, oh yeah, I’m gonna be like, you don’t know who this is. You’re just faking it. You’re kidding. I know. It’s like, this is cute when you do this, but I’m not going to call you out publicly. I’ll wait till we stop recording. 

Angie: You’re so cute when you’re baking it. 

Theresa: I won’t repeat that elsewhere. I’m just, I might isolate that sound by it’s in the Eon. 

Angie: Anyway, go on. Sources. Sources. 

Theresa: The Baltimore Times. First known female firefighter in the United States was a black woman by Andrea Blackstone. Lit Hub on Molly Williams, one of America’s first female firefighters by Jamie Lowe. Allocation, Molly Williams, first female and black firefighter in the U.S. And there was a podcast. Best True Crime, Molly Williams, the first black person and woman to serve as a firefighter. And if I didn’t give it all away, here we go. Are we talking about firefighters? And women. 

Angie: Wild. And those with melanin. Didn’t see that coming. 

Theresa: And the Venn diagram where everything overlaps. 

Angie: I’m excited. Go. Hit it right. Now, Hubs is a trained firefighter. 

Theresa: So these are things. And so every time I think of firefighter, you know, the turnouts aren’t bad. With all of that, it is having been someone who loved the concept of firefighters forever. You know, I would visit a lot of the places that I’ve been to. 

I would visit firehouses in my free, well, for work when I was doing certain things. It was, it was implacable. I wasn’t just, you know, milking. I’m just, you know what? There were things, but I’ve never really. 

Angie: But just to be clear, when you said I would visit firehouses for work when I was doing certain things, you understand the door that opened in my imagination. 

Theresa: You know what? Okay. So I used to work for Red Bull and driving a Red Bull racer. Okay. And there would be some days where it was like, our orders were distribute revenue to the people who needed it. You don’t have a mission. You don’t have a theme. So it’d be like, let’s do North Valley Firehouses. And my, I love this fellow person, my fellow teammate would just say, I agree to your terms. 

And so then we would just go to various firehouses and hook them up with Red Bull. It was not a bad gig for a college girl. Truly. I’m here for it. 

Right. And you get to do things like see the fire pole at the Modesto Firehouse and, you know, really explore these fun things. Having done all that, I know that there are female firefighters. 

I might have met a couple, typically at a party, but never really on duty, never at the firehouse. Okay. So thinking about this, it’s, this was something I was thinking of as I, as I’m thinking through all of this. And even still, you know, because I only saw them at the parties, I never really saw them at work. 

I never really saw them moving heavy equipment, really getting into the nitty gritty with all the work. So with all of that in your mind, now that I’ve firmly dug myself a deep, deep hole of shame, let’s get started. Shame. I mean, go. So we have this woman named Molly woman. 

Nope. We have this woman named Molly Williams. She is an enslaved woman in New York City. And okay. So it’s around 1815. And this is when she becomes a member of Oceanus engine company number 11 and often accompanied the mooch, the merchant who owned her Benjamin Amar. 

To the lower Manhattan where he was a volunteer firefighter. Okay. Okay. Now during the blizzard of 1818, the male firefighters, because they were all male, were pretty scarce because there’s a cholera outbreak just ripping through the area. And Williams, because she had been at the firehouse for so long knew how all this equipment work. She was a tough woman who was basically just outfitted in her checkered apron and calico dress. And she’d work among the men and pull the huge water pumper through fire to the fire through the deep snow. 

Angie: She is already such a badass. The the images in my mind. Yeah. I’m sorry to interrupt. 

Theresa: No, now if you look on YouTube, if you look at podcasts, if you watch tick tocks, that is all the information you’ll ever get about her period in a story. All done. 

Angie: All right, you’re great. 36 seconds. Moving on. You’re good. I have a lot of words. Are you ready? No, I’m there’s I still got it because I was hoping you’re more. But okay. So otherwise this is going to be a real short episode. 

Theresa: Happy Friday. Go with God. Enjoy your weekend. Now, because I refuse to believe that that’s all we had. I went through and so we have this man named George W. Shelton. He in 1882 wrote in an oral history. I’m not quite sure how that worked, but he kind of compiled the oral history. 

Angie: I feel like that’s what I meant to write. Whatever. 

Angie: It works. We got it. Thanks for translating. Pre past, Teresa, she was a she was a mess. 

Angie: Listen, we all have a skill set. And sometimes we’re all a mess. 

Theresa: Anyhow, the oral history was the story of the volunteer fire department of the city of New York. And in it, he wrote one of the most famous volunteers and quote in quotation marks of the earlier days was an old Negro woman named Molly, a slave of John Imer. 

The father of William Imer. Now, this is going to be something I say out loud. I will never read the sentence again. Allow me to regale you with something. Mr. Imer, by the way, was the last of the old knickerbockers, a long tailed coat, knee bridges and silver shoe buckles. Can you repeat that? Yep, I sure can. He was the last of the knickerbockers, a long tailed coat, knee bridges, silver shoe buckles. So you said it twice. 

Angie: You are a monster. You’re welcome. 

Angie: But it was a delightful sentence to say twice. 

Theresa: Right. But it’s, you know, honestly, it’s just one of those you’re like clock. Can I get a visual on this, please? I believe I did by telling you exactly what he was wearing. 

Angie: I think you did. Yeah, I’m not arguing with you. Yeah, I’m just saying like it gives you that. We don’t have those anymore. 

Theresa: No, thankfully, but Molly Williams lived with his family and her job was to take care of his eight children. 

Angie: Okay, so she is actually well suited for the job because eight children is a lot. Yes. Okay. 

Theresa: Now Sheldon identifies Molly as a slave, but by the time the fire happens in 1818, it’s more likely that she wasn’t, that her husband Peter had bought their freedom 35 years previous. Okay. And Benjamin Imard, the wealthy businessman who ran clipperships trading Brandy, Port, Mahogany, and Coffee from New York to California, had originally owned both Molly. Let me go back a second. I agree with what he’s trading in. Brandy, Port, Coffee. And Mahogany. I like to get Mahogany, you know, like I don’t really care. 

Theresa: But you know, these are a few of my favorite things. He’s good to taste. 

Theresa: That’s for sure. So he’s trading the stuff and then he sold the Williams family to Wesley Chapel, the first incarnation of the John Street United Methodist Church in Manhattan’s financial district in 1743 for 40 pounds sterling. They ended up living in the basement of the church as indentured servants. And this is in the 1700s? 1783. 

Angie: Okay, I totally heard you wrong. Okay, got it. Years make sense now. Yeah, I mean, 1818 is the fire. Yeah, in my brain I was like 1743 to 1818. Oh, yeah, no. Got it. Like my brain didn’t. 

Theresa: It’s honestly 40 years. The ability I have to not read a number out loud correctly, you are doing God’s work by calling it out every single time. Okay, because the likelihood of me saying 1543 is highly likely. 

Angie: Okay, but this time in your defense it was me. You said it right and I was like 43. That makes sense. 

Theresa: Yeah, honestly, when in doubt. And I don’t, yeah, all right, but anyhow. Peter serves as a sextant. He’s in charge of the buildings, the maintenance, grave digging and Molly cooks and cleans during this time. 

They have a son, Peter, Jr. And it’s around this time or during the section of their life that they buy their freedom. Okay. So Molly during this time continues to work for I’m our as a servant. She cleaned I’m our house and I love that we have all of these details at 42 Grinne Street and still cooked clean tended for it to his eight children. Even though at this point, not a slave. 

Angie: So you map 42 Grinne Street so we can see what it looks like. That’s one of my favorite things to do by finding an actual address. 

Theresa: I didn’t and that makes me feel really weird because I looked up Rebecca Crompler’s address. 

Angie: Here we are. You’ve got to do you have homework. Okay. 

Theresa: Now, while all this is happening, I’m our was a volunteer in the city’s fledgling firefighting core. Now, this is a prestigious job, but it wasn’t for any kind of amazing feelings. 

This man was not doing it for all touristic purposes at all. It’s a lot of self interest. And it’s one that many wealthy merchants take part in because fires break out frequently and that those that are most affected are those with property. This checks. So he’s got a vested interest in keeping these fires in check. This checks. Because he’s got all of these massive warehouses in Manhattan’s dock. 

So when I’m our went to work at Oceanus engine code number 12 or 11, I can’t read anything out loud. This is now the Coddy Park. I suppose he’d bring Molly. And she cooked the meals and cleaned the station, which doesn’t sound great because you’re volunteering, Brochie, not me. I want to be home. Yeah, fair. 

Angie: Although I would imagine that there’s a very different mindset for her having served him for so many years before. Like that probably feels straight like this is going to be a strange sentence, but that probably feels very natural for her. 

Theresa: I mean, you say that, but if I have a bad relationship and I buy my freedom, bro, it’s five o’clock. I clocked out. 

Angie: Did I miss you saying they had a bad relationship? 

Theresa: No, you didn’t. I’m just saying if you owned me. 

Angie: Yeah, I know about that. Yeah, I’m not about that. I’m just taking it from the perspective of she’s been with him for so long that this would make sense for her. Okay. To go with him and continue to serve in that way. I mean, she’s being paid for it at this point, right? 

Theresa: Right, right. I mean, I don’t think she’s doing this just as a hobby. 

Angie: What’s your hobby? Cleaning the firehouse. 

Theresa: Now, I mean, if I were single, I could see that being a hobby. Right. Because again, apparently I’ve got a type, but back to our girl, Molly. So during this time, there are all kinds of awful things ripping around like we have the flu, yellow fever, cholera. And when this happened, she would care for the crew that got sick and sometimes end up replacing the crew all together. 

Angie: Okay. Get it, get it, girl, get it. 

Theresa: She ended up becoming what was called volunteer number 11. Okay. And I love all of this. And it was, she’s, now we get into the mythos around her, right? Where they talk about how she would be wearing her nice calico dress and a checked apron and a clean bandana neckerchief, neatly folded over her breast and another wound over around her head, rising like a baby pyramid. Basically a headband. I’m assuming. 

Angie: You know, when you wear a bandana and it flaps up in the wind. Yeah. It’s got that triangle. That’s totally what I’m thinking. It’s kind of what I’m thinking too. 

Theresa: So then they talk about the blinding snowstorm of 1818. There’s a fire that breaks out on William Street. And it’s a ton of hard work to draw the engine because this is before a lot of that stuff is automated. 

Angie: Right. We are working without power steering. Yeah. 

Theresa: So that’s fun. She is among the few, some sources say she was the only, some say she was one of a handful that isn’t sick with the flu, cholera, the damn near black plague. Take your pick. Yeah. Pestilence, if you will. Yeah. 

Just honestly, just ripping through the firehouse. But she’s pulling this drag rope and pulling for dear life. And she ends up taking hold of the rope and going and when asked what engine she belonged to, she would always reply, I belong to the OLA 11. Like that’s just how she, this, this is what, like this was strangely in her heart. Like this is, this is what she did. She has said to, like one person said, you could not look at Molly without being impressed by her really honest face. 

It was a beaming lighthouse of good nature. I love her. She identified as a volunteer while serving her former master. And it’s the person who, who goes on one of my sources says, who’s to say how much for service was offered in good nature or out of fear or out of necessity, necessity. Certainly not those who had the wherewithal to write her history. In fact, one detail mentioned the oral history, but found on her gravestone that she died three years after the fire at the age of 74. She pulled that old bullfire engine at the age of 71 years old. 

Angie: So when I miss, miss heard the dates and I was like, granny’s pulling the fire and, and you just let me sit there and think she was a young lady at that point. 

Theresa: I did. I know I’m a monster. Oh, truly. 

Angie: She is a legend. Oh my God, I love her. Now giving the stagecoach Mary. 

Theresa: Oh my gosh. Yes. 

Angie: Like that’s, that’s the. They’re of the same vein, I think. Yeah. Won’t be stopped. Yeah. 

Theresa: Like most women, Molly’s defined by the men around her, her husband was a successful businessman because after being the sex and at the church, he opens a tobacco shop. There you go. Her son, a priest and abolitionist. And then her employer who is a or her employer, former owner, being the wealthy sion of New York. Amar ends up getting buried at Greenwood Cemetery and then there’s more of a record of a funeral than there is of Molly’s life. But when one of the sources reached out to the New York City Fire Museum to see if they had any archival records of Molly or Agmar or I’m are they had an email that received they received that said it’s a frequently asked question. 

Unfortunately, there’s not. Benjamin. I’m are lived to be 84 years old dying in 1876 roughly 14 years after the Emancipation Proclamation and 11 years after the 13th Amendment was ratified on December 6, 1965 or 1865. And what I absolutely adore is learning a little bit more because after Molly Williams, no woman entered the New York Fire Department for another century and a half. 

Angie: Wow, that is bananas. 

Theresa: And what this happened after a woman named Brenda Berkman and a group of 40 women filed a discrimination lawsuit against the Fire Department in New York, which they won in 1982. That is bananas. Yep. 

Berkman served at the FDNY for 25 years and retired retired in 2006 with the rank of captain. Okay. Now we have these incredible women who are breaking down barriers and being the first or being the first after 150 years, which I think at some point the clock starts over. 

Angie: I would think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think you’re right. 

Theresa: But we have many other women that are making contributions to other women trying to climb the ladder in the fire department. There is a 501c3 called Women in Fire, which is a tax exempt charitable organization that reported women have made their ranks of seasonal wildland fighters in the early 1970s and the first female career firefighter was hired in 1974. That is nuts. 

Angie: Yeah. History is a go ahead. 

Angie: Interaction. Yeah, no, I just I’m literally like, I’m sorry. What? To me, yeah. Okay. Go on. Yeah. My brain. 

Theresa: I know because you’re thinking like this should have been one of many, one of like, wait, the 70s? 

Angie: Yeah. Yeah. See, how did we get here? Pardon? Yeah. 

Theresa: Arlington, Virginia. History is made again when Judas Livers was hired to join Arlington County Fire Department. Later, Tony McIntosh of Pittsburg, Pennsylvania becomes the first African American career firefighter in 76. 

That’s bananas. We have Annette Nance Holt who was appointed to become Chicago’s Fire Department Commissioner. And according to the city of Chicago, she was the first woman in African American to serve in that capacity. Wow. So despite all of this and all of these advancements being made, there’s around only 5% of all career firefighters that are women according to the U.S. Fire Administration. 

Angie: Because most of them are paramedics, huh? Yeah. That would be in the EMS, they’d be paramedics. 

Theresa: Yeah, they’re not. They’re not in the fire department at all. They’re just on the. 

Angie: That is bananas. Yeah. 

Theresa: Now we have a woman named Captain Chantel Wilkins and EMT Tiffany Randolph. They’re among two black women, Baltimore City’s Fire Department, who want to recruit more women to work amongst them. Firefighters must retain the desire to help people even when they’re not praised or thanked or having people like me come by and give them Red Bull when they’re in college. They’re basically the unsung heroes for the most part. You know, they’re running into the burning building when everybody else is running out. 

Mm-hmm. Now, volunteer firefighters, even more so because they come in on a part-time basis and are basically only paid per call, depending on what it is. And firefighters of both genders endure the inherent risks of becoming injured while encountering situations that require physical demands of assisting others because this is tough. You have to be able to crawl through really confined spaces and pull out your teammates and whomever else. Right. 

Angie: That makes sense. 

Theresa: Firefighters are at a higher risk of being diagnosed with cancer. And that makes sense. There are around a ton of chemicals as they’re burning and being released into the air. 

Angie: Yeah, that also makes it… Yeah, you’re right. That makes loads of sense. Yeah. 

Theresa: And when individuals from the public down that one one, it’s firefighters who are expected to render service until the challenging job is done regardless of exhaustion or risk, which… Mm-hmm. Yep. And when we think about Williams bringing it all the way back to her, it was incredible for me to really think about all that she endured because she was working alongside her former master, cooking, cleaning, taking care of all these men, being 71, pulling the damble engine. 

Angie: Which is insane at any age, but at 71. 

Theresa: In the snow, in what 

Angie: is only described as a tall, cool dress. Like she’s not in a knee length winter parka and 

Theresa: cute winter boots that go up to her knee. Yeah. Oh, I love her. But all of this is just incredible. Now, there’s a couple of cool things. There’s a book, Molly by Golly, The Legend of Molly Williams, America’s First Female Firefighter. It’s a book for young children telling her stories. Love that. And then we have a group called the FFF, which is Fierce Female Firefighters, founded by Lieutenant Tina Gowler. 

They offer a plush doll named Molly, and the proceeds for that little doll supported women firefighters and women in the emergency medical services who are battling cancer and other medical challenges. That gave me the shivers. Isn’t that beautiful? That’s so cool. 

Angie: As it should. Get it ladies. 

Theresa: Yeah. Like just women supporting women. 

Angie: Oh, are you showing me? I panicked. Yep. 

Theresa: I shared my screen. There was this one image in one of the articles because, you know, we’re talking early 1800s. There’s not a lot to go off of, but I was able to find this image. I don’t know if you want to describe it. 

Angie: Okay. So it looks, it looks like maybe a woodblock cutting, but it could be just a sketch, but it, it’s got the, you call it a block. It’s a bull engine. Is that? Yeah. 

Okay. So this engine is definitely not light. Definitely not easy to maneuver on four wheels, like a flay status, but on four wheels. 

And it’s in this photo, it’s being pulled by what I can only imagine is a rendering of Molly. She is not dressed in winter gear. No. At most that’s a shawl she’s wearing. 

Theresa: But at most. Because it’s a drawing. We don’t know. I don’t know when it was drawn. I don’t know if it was, you know, hyperbole. I don’t know if it was somebody there at the time going, no, no, that’s really all she wore. 

Angie: Right. I like that in the back of the image, they’re a two men like running around. They look like they’re just running around in circles. Like, we don’t know what we’re doing, but here we are while Molly’s pulling the tanker. Yeah. This is definitely what it looks like. Oh, how fun. I love that. But how did you, where did you learn of her? 

Theresa: So one of our listeners, Ryan, he shares lots of tick talks and reels with me about things that he feels I should know. Things he feels that we should know he emails them to us and you don’t check the email. So I hoard them like a dragon horde skull and I thank him for his contributions. And I added my to be done list and I delete the emails. 

Angie: If I could check the emails, I would read the delete, but I will not be, because I’m not a monster. And I understand that we all need a person to help fill our to be done lists. Yeah, that’s the story of Molly lives. Well, in a wild turn of events, and this is truly wild, I actually know how to segue today. Because I am going to tell you about the first female detective of Scotland Yard. 

Theresa: Oh heck yes. I like it when we do an accidental theme. 

Angie: Like, as soon as you said the first lady firefighter, I was like, no, 

Theresa: like, you just chewed this up so beautifully for me. I don’t even need AI to help write this transition. 

Angie: Thanks. So my biggest source, like the most used source is an article called the life of William Wiles. It is an article that was it’s on the International Police Association UK’s website. 

It’s written by Beverly Edwards. She is the chair of the Metropolitan Women’s Police Association. There is a Britannic article on Scotland Yard. And then there is a the standard, which I’m not actually sure if I use this one because I was just more curious about the name of Scotland. Like, how do we end up with the name Scotland Yard, you know, I mean, I’m here for you to tell me that. 

Theresa: That’s why I’ve got that information. Okay, thank you. Here in just a second. 

Theresa: In which case that is a very valid source. Thank you for your offering. 

Angie: Thank you. A really fabulous article called a brief history of Scotland Yard by Jess Bloomberg in September from September 7th of the Smithsonian. A Victorian Metropolitan Police History in Facts.org. So it’s VictorianEra.org. So they have a lot of little fun categories you go through and get information on. 

Who are the first female detectives in Britain from Library Matters? That’s a pretty fabulous website. It’s got some great books that go along with what you’re looking for. And it’s from McGill. So that’s pretty cool. 

And then a PBS article. So because I was doing Lillian Wiles, I developed a couple of questions that I needed to answer for myself. And I thought if I have these questions, maybe I’m not the only one. Did you? 

Okay. So when you were doing your stuff on Molly, were you ever curious, like, did it ever cross your mind what fire service was like before there was organized fire service? 

Theresa: No, because Mike would info dump sometimes. So that makes sense. My eyes would glaze over. I’d catch about 10, 15 percent. And then six months later, he’d tell me again. And so I have a rough understanding. Okay. 

Angie: So that’s more than I started with. And I’ve always sort of wondered, like, police forces, as we know them today, did not always exist that way. But like, how did that transition work? So that’s where my curiosity started. So Scotland Yard, for a fun fact, has about 30,000 officers that patrol 620 square miles for its 7.2 million citizens. The Smithsonian says, quote, neither in Scotland nor in a yard, it is the name of the headquarters of London’s Metropolitan Police and by association has become synonymous with the force. And that always threw me off. Right? 

Always. Like, I knew Sherlock Holmes was with Scotland Yard, but it is not in Scotland Yard and I need to know why. Okay. 

Well, I’m going to tell you why in just a second. So in 1829, the London Police Force was created by an act introduced in Parliament from the Home Security, which is like a role that’s similar to the US Secretary of the Interior. Okay. So this guy’s name is Sir Robert Peel, which is why the policemen are called Bobbies. Like, it’s just a little funny name that… 

Theresa: Oh, because of Robert. Okay. Okay. I’m with you. 

Angie: Right? Okay. So this new police department that he’s creating, it supersedes the old system of watchmen. Now, here was the part that I didn’t fully understand. So by 1839, these men had replaced the Bow Street patrols. And basically, like, according to Wikipedia, because I was like, what the heck is a Bow Street patrol? This was actually considered to be the first British police force, but before it was founded, the law enforcing system was sort of in the hands of private citizens and, like, individuals, and there was very little intervention from the state. So I think vigilante is kind of the image that I’m getting. 

More citizens arrest. Cool. That’s what we’re going with. And there’s really no organized squad or team or home base to go with. Like, I think that if you’re a citizen arresting or whatever you want to call it, someone, you are taking them to the magistrate. Like, there’s not really a jail as we know it. 

Theresa: Grabbing a punk by his collar and saying, you’re coming with me, sunny boy. Yes, that’s… I mean, with an accent. 

Angie: And a… Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. Exactly, right? Okay, so these guys at the Bow Street patrol, they basically were designed to, quote, enforce the decision of magistrates and the river police. They worked to prevent crime along the Times River. So that seems to be a little bit more organized. Like, there is a river police, and that’s all they cater to. 

The responsibility of organizing this new police force falls to Colonel Charles Rowan and Richard Main. They occupy a private house at four white hall place, the back of which opens into a courtyard. The Great Scotland Yard, to be precise. So… How does it get that name? 

Theresa: Getting there. Okay. I’m just here for transitions. 

Angie: The Yards name was inspired by its site. A former medieval palace which housed Scottish royalty when they were in residence in London. That seems to be the most likely and most accepted account of the place name, at least. Like, there are other ideas, but the gist is there was formerly a palace here where the Scottish royal family, when they were called upon, lived at while they were in London. 

Okay. And so here we are at Scotland Yard. Now Scotland Yard has moved a couple of times since then, but in 1967 it moved to its current location which happens to be this modern 20 story building near, like, much closer to the House of Parliament. It’s now called New Scotland Yard. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen, like, the door sign for it. 

No. TV shows or whatever, but it’s real. That’s exactly what it says, New Scotland Yard. Now, right around the time that they start to build this force, they developed something called the CDI, which is the Criminal Investigation Department. 

This unit is super respected. It’s plain clothes police detectives. It’s developed in 1877 by a guy named Howard Vincent, and he is the Director of Criminal Investigation. 

Now, the CDI is super well known for its investigative techniques and methods, especially fingerprinting, which the FBI here in the US uses today. Like a lot has come from this department. So there’s a little bit of background on Scotland Yard, right? Like, we now have an organized police force, and within that organized police force there are departments. Let me talk about the first female detective, Miss Lillian Wiles. But I have a question. Who do you think came first? Real lady detectives or fictional ones? 

Theresa: This is a loaded question, because I know oftentimes we have, like, science fiction writers that spark the imagination of the inventors who create the things that they read about in books. So I could see someone writing about a female detective or investigator, and that would later inspire and beget the legitimate one, much like the tenetophora spawned actual astronauts. Yeah. But you could easily say that the writers were inspired by a literal woman who went and broke the barriers. So I don’t know. But the fact that you’re asking means it was probably the woman who just broke in and did it. 

Angie: So it’s sort of a little nuanced situation. So there are these two authors, one is called Andrew Forrester Jr., and another called William S. Hayward. They both published novels in, consequently, coincidentally, on January 1 of 1864. Both novels feature professional female detectives. 

Theresa: This is like when the news or the news, the movie companies went and perceived ants and bugs life in the same summer. 

Angie: Yeah, rude. Exactly. And you keep arguing with everybody that you’ve already seen this movie. These ladies are seen in the books, are seen as, quote, professional detectives working with the law enforcement institutions for murder mysteries to forgery. Nothing escapes the scrutinizing eyes of these two elusive women. Now, that was 1864. But in 1857, according to women’slegalandmarks.com, there was this delightful thing called the Matrimonial Cause Act. And this is basically, it’s an act to allow, to give women legal standing to seek divorce or nullify their marriage. To leave, like, for whatever circumstances they wish, to just leave an unhappy marriage and then remarry. The grounds for divorce could be adultery, bigamy, incest cruelty, and other factors. Obviously, we know that prior to this, it was nearly impossible for an average woman to get a divorce. 

So this happens in 1857. Now, this creates a new market for private detectives, you know, like for catching adulterous men or women trying to elope with the adulterous men. So, because girl’s gonna girl, the women’s association, they’re like acquiring information through gossip and surveillance. And they sort of need some kind of financial gain. And this allows these women to work as private detectives. So like civilians, private detectives. 

Theresa: We have women who go through and like really like break through the text messages, go through the social media of the time. Professionally, that’s how we started to catch the cheating husband. Pretty much, yeah. 

Angie: We all have that one. Through all the same, yeah, right through all the same channels that we have today. They just look a little different. Now, some of these ladies were private detectives with male-led private detective agencies. And we, unfortunately, we know very little about them. But what we do know is that in the 1880s, there are two rival agencies that like dominate the scene. There were Slater’s women’s, women’s detectives and Mosser’s lady detective agency. Have you heard of the woman called Mod West? 

Theresa: I’ve heard of Mae West, but that’s a very different. Very different. 

Angie: So this is just a little fun side quest to get to Lillian. But Mod West was like this super popular and very well known as a private female detective. She was known for her use of disguise. 

And like beloved. In 1905, she sets up her own private investigation agency and she becomes famous like with loads of articles about her work and the agency published both in the British and American newspapers. So she’s like the super star private detective. Like the world is just enamored with her. Now, prior to the First World War, the only rules that women could play in the police station were like the role of matron. 

And I’m not entirely sure what that is, but I think it is like they basically just took care of the day to day like running. Like did you eat your lunch? Do we have enough paper? Did you ever do that? Chicago? No. Years ago, the prison? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Theresa: Where you have Queen Latifah? She plays the mother Morton. 

Angie: So there you go. It’s been years since I’ve seen it, but I imagine you’re on a better track than I am. 

Theresa: And I now have all the songs stuck in my head, but here we go. Sorry. 

Angie: But often these matrons, they’re either the wives or relatives of the police officers, right? So they’re not really applying for the position. They’re just, they’re sort of, they’re adjacently anyway. So here we have a job for you. However, during the First World War, a voluntary force known as the Women’s Police Volunteers, which would then later be called the Women’s Police Service, was established. Now, these volunteer constables and officers, they wore uniforms and patrolled the streets of cities and towns all across the UK. And their main interest was in women and children. Like that was there. That was what they chose to guard. That’s what they cared for. 

Now, fast forward just a little bit. It’s August 31st, 1885, and Lillian Mary Elizabeth Wiles was born. She’s the daughter of Julia Grizzles and Joseph Wiles, who was a lingature brewer. A what? A brewer? A brewer? He was like from Lingentire? 

A brewer? Oh, okay. I thought that was, okay. You’re good. 

Got it. On her mother’s side, her ancestors were shit builders, which I thought was just such a fun random fact to know about this very obscure thing, but I loved it. Lillian grows up attending boarding school at Sinat Hall, and she finishes her education in Paris. Now, mind you, she’s born in 1885, so this is the world we’re living in, but I just want to tell you that I love the next part when you consider this timeframe. 

Her father wants her to consider a career as a barrister after obtaining her law degree. Whoa. Not come home and get married. Let’s go be a lawyer, sis. But because the world doesn’t happen in a vacuum, she actually does some service as a hospital nurse in World War I. So she gets out of school, and that’s pretty much, she goes right into this occupation as a hospital nurse. Once she comes back to London, she notices women patrolling the streets of London, and they’re wearing these blue armlets of the Metropolitan Police. These women are organized by the National Union of Women Workers, and their leader is a woman called Mrs. Sophia Stanley. Right about this time, the Home Secretary and Metropolitan Police Commissioner announced that they are going to have an experiment, if you will, of employing women in the Met. Well, with that happening, the contract for the National Union of Women Workers for their women patrols is canceled, but Mrs. Stanley is offered the job of the first woman superintendent of these women police. She makes $200 per year. 

Theresa: Okay, but what does that mean? I did not figure out what the translation was. I’m so sorry. That’s all right. 

Angie: But later, you’ll hear another translation, so maybe that’ll help even it out. Our girl decides this is it, and she scores an interview with Mrs. Stanley and begins training with 25 other trainees in August of 1918. She’s 35 when she applies for the job. 

Her previous work experiences are listed as unpaid volunteer for the women’s patrol, a children’s governess, as well as some experience in social work in the east end of London. I’m not sure what that looks like at the time, but I have ideas in my mind. I’m sure they’re wrong. 

Theresa: I mean, I’ve seen Call the Midwife. I’ve, but that was also years and years later. Never mind. Ignore me. Go on. 

Angie: So for funsies, the women had a minimum height requirement of 5’4″. I’m unclear why. And women with dependent young children were banned from applying. Additionally, if they were successful, like if you were able to apply, you’re just, you’re a young woman, you’re 5’4″. You want to apply and you make it. You have no right to a pension, which really takes me off. 

But that’s neither here or there. Lillian, she’s super successful under her application. She joined Mrs. Stanley’s group along with 20 other women and then go to Peel House Training School on the 30th of December in 1918 to train alongside the Mint. About this time, her brother bets her 100 pounds that she wouldn’t last as a police officer. Literally half of her yearly wages. Well, that’s half of the superintendent’s wages. I don’t know what her yearly wages are. Don’t worry though, she does collect on that debt later. 

Okay, good. By February 17, 1919, she becomes a patrol officer for Scotland Yard. Now, at first, the women’s patrols worked from certain police stations in central London. All the while, the male officers are keeping what the author calls a friendly eye out and would assist them if necessary. These women’s whole goal is to protect the young ladies that are coming to London because they’re attracted to the big city vibes during the war. Like, they want to be a part of everything that’s moving and happening and that’s, hers also worked, right? 

So that’s their job. The women’s patrol are women and children. However, the patrol has no authority and they only deal with the welfare of women and children. And many of these women were not paid for their time. Oh, so volunteer basis. Mrs. Stanley, she works to extend the scope of her ladies and what they can do to certain ordinance and small arms factories. 

So they’re also, the way I understood that as like guarding those factories, right? So in September of 1918, Lilian goes to Woolworth Arsenal as an assistant patrol leader, which I think is pretty cool. Like, she’s 35, which probably 36 at this time. Then, so she’s, she’s only there a couple of months because on November 11th of 1918, the siren sound at 11 o’clock and the first war, the first World War is over. So the factories close and the work is done and drives up and the women, the women patrols go back to their bases, pretty unclear of their future. However, like I said, she, she gets her, she completes her training and gets her, her contract of employment on February 17th of 1919. 

She begins her career as one of the first newly promoted sergeants at the time. Her beat was the central and east end of London. This included the docks and China town. Now these areas, they were known as the white slave market and it was thriving. So this is what she’s walking into every day. 

Theresa: So this is the same kind of white slavery that we have our girl across the pond complaining about? Grace. Mm-hmm. Quack and boast. I’m sure of it. Absolutely sure. It’s literally happening because it wasn’t happening in New York, but it’s literally happening in London. 

Angie: That’s what they’re saying. This, this is, that’s happening on the docks and the, I believe the term that the author of this article that I used for the book of my source said was flourishing. Okay. Right. 

Okay. So the girls make their first official appearance in uniform at Westminster Abbey on the 17th of May 1919. She said, Lilian says later in life that Mrs. Stanley had an account at Herod’s and they were all fitted with new uniforms for the big day. 

Wow. So like they go to the, you know, they go home after the war closes, pretty unclear what their life’s going to be like. But I really get the vibe that Mrs. Stanley is not about to let these girls go. Like she sees their values. She sees what they’re going to do. So she does, she works overtime to make sure they have a place. 

By January of 1921, she has made Inspector Second Class. But a year later, there’s this terrible economic situation, you know, since the war’s over and cuts are decided to help public cost. This time would be known as the Getty’s acts, not act acts. The commissioner states that women officers are quote, not doing proper police work. And then the women’s units at this point, they’re going to be abolished. 

But our girl doesn’t stop. She handles it as one of only 20 officers who were reprieved. At this point, she becomes the first female officer in the CID. Now, and I love this. She’s employed specifically to take the statements of victims from sex crimes as well as children. 

Theresa: I feel like that’s really revolutionary. 

Angie: It really is because up to this point, the people taking the statements are like civilian assistants. And Lillian is looking at this thinking, this doesn’t really make sense because, and I’ll say this later, but just the gist of it is, they need to understand the laws and the rules and things are going to be inadmissible in court if they don’t. Right. So someone should be educated in this. It should be a police officer taking this statement. So that becomes her. In April of 23, she signs the attestation book giving her the power of arrest. And it is largely because of her that other women are also granted this power because up to this point, they have almost no authority and they need to call a man for help. 

Until she comes along. Now fast forward. It’s 1932. A woman called Dorothy Pito takes command of what is called a four branch. So this is the women’s police. There’s some pretty fabulous things about her too. She’s credited with using the Children and Young Person Act of 33 to quote, take ownership of cases involving child abuse. This alone establishes a special role for police women. So she also increases the number of females in the CID to four. So now it’s not just the one there for. Which I think is pretty cool. Lillian is instrumental, like I said earlier, in ensuring that women officers and not civilian assistants would take statements from women in the cases of sexual abuse. And I just, I think that’s really fabulous because one of the things that was happening in London prior to her and prior to Scotland Yard being organized was that there was a lot of. 

What’s the word there? It was a debacle. It was a mess. There’s a lot of bribery and back alley dealings happening. And so police officers weren’t in any capacity, weren’t viewed as trustworthy characters to begin with. I’m glad that’s changed. 

Yeah, right. So Scotland Yard gets organized and then gets reorganized and it’s because of people like Lillian that it gets this reputation for being the best of the best. And I think that’s that’s pretty fabulous because she’s just trying to do her job, right? But you can also imagine that as the first woman CID officer, her relationship with other male colleagues was not always easy. 

Yeah. But to her benefit, she has the confidence of the chief constable of the CID Frederick Winsley on her side and he would actually call upon her and use her to work several notable cases in her time there. So he’s got her. 

He’s like, I see you and I’m going to make sure we utilize everything we can. She retires in 1949. At the point of her retirement, there are 338 Metropolitan police women, 21 of them are from the CID. Whoa. 

Theresa: Right. 

Angie: So Lillian’s work consisted of taking the statements for sexual assaults and says abortion, things like that. Her service record shows six commendations relating to these cases. She was also the first woman to retire in 1949 on completion of 30 years of service. And for this, she was awarded the British Empire Medal in June of that year. Does she get a pension? 

Hold on. She also has a memoir called A Woman at Scotland Yard. It was published in 52. 

I hope to get my hands on it someday very soon. She also did lectures and she would broadcast on police matters as well as child welfare. Now, to quote the author of the article that I use as my main source, Beverly Edwards, by the time of her retirement, women police were awarded a pension. 

Lillian received $348 per year, which equates to around $12,000 in today’s values. Eventually, Lillian would go to Cornwall to the home of her ancestors and she would die unmarried in Penzance on the 13th of May, 1975. She was interred there and her final resting place remained unmarked for more than 40 years. That was the case until a really special service of blessing for a gravestone took place on May 10th, excuse me, March 10th of 2019, 100 years after she joined the Women’s Police Patrol in London. Wow. So the really awesome part of this is this event was attended by serving police officers and staff from the Metropolitan Police and the Devon and Cornwall Police, senior police officers including Chris Ededick, who is the QPM Commissioner of the Metropolitan Metropolis and patron of the Metropolitan Women Police Association. There are members of the association there, relatives of Lillian, members of the Cornwall International Police Association branch. 

I mean, there’s people from all over that came to celebrate her. But on these two notes I just want to end. In her memoir, she says the day of her retirement, quote, The many people I had met and the many friends I had made, I thought of the several thousand children, girls and women who had given me their confidence and of those who regained their self-respect and happiness. 

Perhaps the 30 years of struggle, work and often disappointment had not been fruitless years and my efforts had not been in vain. Now, I was curious. Chris Ededick was named Scotland Yards first female top cop as the police commissioner. 

On February 23rd of 2017, 188 years after Scotland Yards became a thing. And I think it is because of women like Lillian Wiles that she had a chance. 100%. 

Just love it. That’s my story of the first lady detective of Scotland Yards, which coincidentally fell on the same day that you decided to tell me about the first lady firefighter. 

Theresa: The first lady firefighter and the first black lady firefighter at that. That is so cool. 

Angie: I am so excited for the search that I’m going to do, trying to find images of her. 

Theresa: They don’t seem to really. There’s like one that I could find. It’s not like, you know, in the public domain. It doesn’t, I don’t know. You’ll find it. You’ll find it. But like the one I had, the illustration seemed like it seemed cooler. 

Angie: I thought it was pretty fabulous. Oh, oh my goodness. I didn’t include a photo for you, but there is one. I’ll let you through. I am so sorry. Let me give me just one second. There is a really great image of her in uniform. There she is. Okay. 

Theresa: She is showing me a woman in very tall, very proud woman. She looks like she is in her early 50s, maybe mid 50s. She is in a long A line skirt that goes down mid cap. Looks like it’s a heavy twill material, the same material as her very long coat that is buckled around the waist with a belt. 

Very fashionable. Normally you don’t see, like she, this is honestly when you have Wonder Woman who goes and gets the disguise, you know, like she’s in that. That’s, it’s a can to that. But she’s got the hat on her arms behind her back. You can tell she is both thoughtful and knowledgeable and wheels authority. 

Angie: One of the things that I loved, I included talking about their uniforms, but what I didn’t mention is that Mrs. Stanley would send them straight to her as soon as they finished their training to be fitted. I just, I really love a fashion forward queen like that, you know. Yeah. 

Theresa: This, yeah, this is a Harris put together outfit. This wasn’t, this wasn’t put together at Salvation Army. No. 

Angie: It is fitted. It is neat. It looks, I can’t tell for sure, but the arm that you can see, it looks like there’s fringe down at the bottom of the sleeve. Yeah. And she’s got the lines of her rank, the V of her rank. I just, I’m completely, I just love her. I love that our week coincided on accident. 

Theresa: I won’t tell you that Ian texted me. 

Angie: You know what that’s funny because he threatened to. He didn’t. I know. He was like, well, if you’re not going to do a story, I can’t even remember what story it was. He’s like, then I’m just going to text Theresa because I want it done. And I was like, oh my gosh. Hey. 

Theresa: I mean, I’m here for it very truly. I know. And he knows too. 

Angie: See the problem? 

Theresa: There’s no one on my side. I know. Well, if you’ve enjoyed this and you’re thinking, you don’t want to be on Angie’s side either, then rate, review, subscribe, join us next week. And you can always email us on unhinged.historypod@gmail.com. And on that note, goodbye. Goodbye.