This week, Angie kicks things off with Judge Crater’s disappearance. Now, for those of us playing at home, this was the old-timey scandal. Judge Crater had links to presidential candidate Franklin Delano Roosevelt and had cashed out a ton of money. He was dubbed “the missingest man in New York.”
Warning: this is a cold case, and it annoyed Theresa.
Pivoting sharply, Theresa heads back to the origins of Vancouver, Washington, and follows the handiwork of a six-foot-tall nun named Mother Joseph. This absolute badass would build over 30 hospitals, schools, and orphanages throughout her career in the PWN and establish the Providence Medical system, still in operation today.
This story pairs well with:
The Mysterious Disappearance of Agatha Christie
The Woman Who Founded Vancouver, Washington: Esther Short
The Weird Case of the Meowing Nuns
Transcript
Theresa: Hi, and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast, the podcast where two absolute crazy heads are going to meet Jelly Goose. Right. Uh we’re gonna mainline history. And then we are going to join forces and tell each other the story. We’ve only recently learned I’m host one, I’m Teresa, and that is host two. I’m Angie. Hi. Facts.
Angie: No lies detected.
Theresa: Yeah, and I believe don’t you go first today?
Angie: I do. It is me. Yeah.
Theresa: I think I got so excited last time that I just stole the show. It’s like, I’m gonna go get out of my way.
Angie: And I was like, cool, cool, cool. I’m not I’m not emotionally ready yet.
Theresa: You know, I think not emotionally ready yet is strong.
Angie: I really think it needs to be on a shirt for me. Yeah. I’m here for well. Right. Um let’s get right into it. Do you have your murder board and your red string out?
Theresa: I don’t know which one of us has a blaggy internet, but you I didn’t he didn’t hear Um My Internet says I’m golden.
Angie: Then it’s probably my internet and I that are unstable.
Angie: Well, at least you’re unstable together. Truth. Tell me if you want me to try again.
Theresa: Uh just go ahead and and see you said something about m murderboard.
Angie: Yeah, do you have your murder board out in your red string ready? Because I’m gonna tell you about the missingest man. The missing is man? Yes. The missingest man. Okay. Yeah, okay. Uh my sources. Ooh, Wikipedia had an article on Judge Joseph Force Carter. Lafayette, uh like Lafayette University has an article titled Looking Back Looking Back, New Novel Suggests Fate of Judge Joe Carter, class of 1910. At Best Go, EBSCO, however you want to say it, has a really Like really condensed version of his story that was very useful. Um History.com has an article called uh This Day in History, August 6th, just Force Carter becomes the missingest man in New York.
The um Segale Sigale Museum.org. Have you seen this man? History.com’s got a Aaron Blackmore article titled The 1930s Investigation that took down the New York that took down New York’s mayor and then Tammany Hall. Whoa. A political yeah, a political.com story called Judge Joe Force Crater disappears on August 6th, 1930. And then the Wall Street Journal Um had an article. Finding Judge Joe Creator Review, um hot town cold case by Edward Cosser in June of 22.
So let’s get into it. Joseph Crater was born January 5th, 1889 in Eastern Pennsylvania to Layla Virginia Montahu and Frank Ellsworth Crater. Both of his parents are Irish immigrants. And I’m just thinking, those are some pretty fabulous names. I’m certain that they didn’t start with. But that’s just my opinion.
Theresa: What do you mean they didn’t start with? Like they got to create them or
Angie: I’m thinking when your name is Lila Virginia Montahu and you’re an Irish immigrant, that’s probably the name you chose when you came into the country as opposed to the name you’re born with.
Theresa: I don’t know. I I think that you might be you you you I don’t know. I I think they either way.
Angie: I’m a huge fan of Irish names. Either way, like uh it’s they’re they’re great names. So like I’m here.
Theresa: You just throw shade in a very recent episode about Irish names and then later looked it up like I’m just kidding, they’re great.
Angie: That was No, I literally said it is not an Irish name. This is the most not sounding Irish name I said, and then I looked it up and said, See, I’m right.
Anyway. Okay, Pop is a produce market operator as well as an orchard orchard owner. Joseph is the f oldest of four children. Unfortunately, I can’t really speak to his childhood. Don’t really know anything about that, but he went to Lafayette College in Pennsylvania and he graduated in 1910. And then he goes on to Columbia to get his law degree in 1916. While he’s at Columbia, he meets a girl called Stella Mance Wheeler. Now she’s already married. Scandalous.
Theresa: That’s that’s not gonna be a problem, is it?
Angie: No, I mean, because in the spring of nineteen seventeen, he helps her get a divorce from her first husband, and it’s just seven days later they’re married.
Theresa: So that’s a bit quick.
Angie: Yeah, you know, I don’t know how long the divorce took, but well, this is seven days after it was finalized, they were married. Now, Lafayette says, quote, Crater was a snappy dresser known for his tailored suits. When he disappeared, he was wearing pearl gray spats, a double breasted brown suit with thin green stripes, and a Panama hat cocked at a sporty angle. He wore an old fashioned detachable choker collar of starch starched linen and a gold mesionic ring. End quote.
Theresa: Such a look. That’s the fit. Right?
Angie: Such a look. Crater after he goes to law school, he gets his degree, blah, blah, blah. He works his way up from the clerk to law secretary to New York State Supreme Court Justice Robert F. Wagner. And then from there, he opens his own office in the equitable building in Manhattan.
Now it is worth noting that Wagner becomes a U.S. Senator in 1926. So you can already sort of see like the political ties that this man is going to have, right?
Right about the time he opens his office, he also joins this club called the Cayuka Club, or the Cayuca Democratic Club, with a man called Martin J. Healy. Now, Healy is the district leader for Tammany Hall. And he so Crater is creating all of these political connections like all throughout New York. And not only are they political, but he also has connections to every showgirl in town because my guy loves Broadway. Also, Healy is not the most scrupulous of fellas, if you know what I mean. Like he is gonna get in embedded into a scandal not too f not too long from now.
Theresa: So just like I’m I’m holding on to that.
Angie: 1930s politics. Like it’s not gonna be right. Okay, so here’s the clean version of Tammany Hall because I think this is important. They are an American political organization that was founded in 1789 as the Tammany Society. It’s eventually going to become the main like political machine for the Democratic Party. It plays this huge role in controlling both New York City as well as New York state politics. Now, on the other side of that, Tammany Hall is doing like a lot of great work for immigrants and you’re just your average Joes.
So they have like these two these two sides that are working together and sort of butting heads with their ideals, kind of in my in my imagination, that’s sort of how it looks. Okay. Um you can imagine, because I’ve just given you the clean version, that there is a not clean version that features bribery and fraud.
Theresa: Yeah, I mean, when I’ve heard of Tammany, I didn’t necessarily hear, hey, here’s the great work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Angie: Right? Okay, because they are heavily involved um in a lot of scandalous political moments, especially in this area. Now, Crater, he spends his time in the Cayuga Democratic Club, which is a wing or like a branch of Tammany. He is organizing election workers and representing the club in election law cases.
Because right, he’s a lawyer. This makes sense. Now, one of the more interesting things that Tammany is known for, and I just I find this so fascinating. They are known for selling government jobs. For example, you want to be the judge, they make you the judge, but you just gotta pay them a year’s salary. Like they have that kind of power. By the 30s, Tammany, yeah.
Theresa: A year’s salary. Every year. Basically, I work for the one time.
Angie: Like you become I make you the judge this year, you pay me next year’s salary, that sort of thing. I’m with you. Now, shocker, by the thirties, Tammany is run by the mob. Ah, surprise, surprise. Who is also feeding Prohibition era New York all the beer at wants if you know where to look. So he’s got these massive political and maybe CD underworld connections, definitely connections to showgirls. There’s all these things that are like the the people that he is in the orbit of and the people that are in his orbit are it’s crazy. Now, on April 8th of 1930, Crater has been promoted to the New York Supreme Court by none other than the then governor of New York, a one Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
You’re gonna want to keep that in your brain. By doing so, FDR has outright rejected the preferred candidate at Tammany Hall, but at the same time, this is just done to fill a position that has recently been opened. So in order for Crater to keep his position, he’s gonna need to go on the campaign trail for November’s election.
Right? Okay, so in August of 1930, him and his wife go to Maine. Now typically they would summer there. I’m kind of pissy that I don’t get to summer anywhere, but I guess different time, different tax bracket.
Theresa: Yeah, no, d it’s just different tax bracket.
Angie: Yeah, just for whatever. I would like to summer somewhere. Anyways. Um this year though, he waits for a court to adjourn for the season to go. So he’s she goes up, he stays, she comes and go like he comes and goes, that kind of thing. What we do know is that at some point in that summer, he spends two days in Atlantic City. We don’t know why or if it even matters, but by early August, he is with his wife in Maine. On August 3rd, he gets a phone call. He tells her he’s gotta go back to the city to straighten those fellas out. And then he tells her he’ll be back before her birthday, which is August 9th.
Now, we know at some point between August 3rd and like August 24th, he visits his old boss Wagner, like they have lunch together. Now, Crater has this court attendant. I’m assuming this is like his assistant. His name is Joseph Mara, and Mara says that on August 6th, the judge spends the whole day filling briefcases and file boxes with documents, and one source even says he has destroyed some at the same like in the same go.
So I’m not so sure. Al says on this particular day, the judge is very antsy. And up to this point, he’s kind of a laid back fella. So Mara’s like, something’s up.
I just can’t can’t pinpoint what we’re doing, but something’s up. At some point during this day, he also asks Mara to cash a couple of checks for him, equaling about a hundred thousand dollars in today’s money.
Theresa: So that’s sketch. I mean, that’s I hope my boss would ask me for that. Right.
Angie: Back then it’s about five thousand dollars. Now he knows that Crater has he’s got dinner plans that evening with attorney William Klein and a chorus girl called Lou Ritz. He also has tickets to the review dancing partner at the Belasco Theater, which is on um 111 West 45th Street. Now, here’s where it goes a little wonky.
It’s already wonky, right? Because he’s supposed to be vacationing with her wife, or with his wife. Andy Klein, excuse me, the attorney William Klein and the cur chorus girl say they saw him leave the restaurant about nine.
We know someone uses his theater tickets, but we’re not sure if it’s him. Okay. Okay. Now, Stella, his wife, her birthday has come and gone. Her birthday is August 9th, and he hasn’t returned, he hasn’t been called, nothing. Now, she is clearly disappointed, but she assumes he’s stuck doing work, right? He’s just been appointed to this position a few months earlier, who knows what’s going on.
It’s got to be a work thing. Now one of my sources, which I did not give you the name of because I can’t yet, they um have other sour other stories I intend to tell you at some point. Um they say that she’s not initially susp like suspect of anything because he’s done this kind of thing before where he’s just run off and disappeared for a few days.
Theresa: However, and this is what I was thinking, right? Like the fact that she wasn’t packing her bags or burning his stuff meant that she’s used to this.
Angie: Now, the interesting thing that to point out here though is despite the fact that this source says he’s he’s kind of known for this, he is typically not one to break a promise to his wife, despite the fact that according to other sources, he is absolutely a flander. So I’m like, how do you break not break a promise to your wife, but you literally broke the promise to your wife?
Theresa: Well, I guess it depends, right? Because maybe he he looked at her and he was just like, Hey, you know how you have a headache? I’m gonna go pound one out with Lucy.
Angie: You know, it could have been a marriage like that, who knows. But after a few days of him not not coming back, she starts calling like all of his contacts. And none of them are saying anything, you know, like the old boys’ club, like, oh, he he’s probably just running off with his mistress, like no big deal.
They’re they’re just they’re cold. They don’t know nothing, haven’t seen him, haven’t talked to him, blah blah blah. Now, here’s what I find to be really interesting about this. She waits like twenty days before she reports him missing to the authorities. Interesting. Because again, w on the one hand, it’s interesting because really 20 whole days.
Theresa: Like, how can I with his record like before?
Angie: That’s what I want to know, and I haven’t found anything to to determine that. What I also find interesting is if he is known for this, and you expect him to come back. I could see somebody not wanting to call the authorities and make it a thing if you expect him to come back. But like 20 days is a long time one way or the other, and none of his friends have seen him. Now, one source says that at some point she does send her like chauffeur to go back to the house in New York to their apartment and try to find him to try to locate him. And all he finds is a door he can’t open and a bunch of unopened mail.
So he’s not really getting anything either. Now, she reports him to the authorities, and because he has high profile, and like in in New York, he is incredibly well known about town, like very famous, and this makes him famous across the country because he is New York famous, right? He is high profile and political. The police do their very best job to keep their investigation quiet because they’re like this cannot be a thing especially during an election year, Especially since he is currently writing the coattails of FDR.
Like There is there is all kinds of little parts to play here. And so they’re doing their very best to just keep everything very quiet. Unfortunately, this doesn’t work because on September 3rd, somebody leaks the information to the press, and the news explodes like nation wide. And this immediately provokes rumors of political scandal, of course, because why wouldn’t it? now two things to know about this particular moment in time?
Just earlier that year, because of other political problems, FDR had launched something called the Hofstatter Committee or the Seabury investigation, which was a joint legislative committee formed by the New York State legislator on behalf of Def of FDR, because basically they need to like probe the corruption in New York City. There is some problems. You’ve had especially in the magistrates’ courts and the police department. Like we’ve got issues, we need to figure out what the what the issue is and resolve it, because this is corrupt from top to bottom.
Like, where’s the problem? This eventually is going to lead to some major changes in both the mess method of arrest, they’ll and litigation of suspects in New York City. Now, the other thing that you need to know is that in May of 1930, Crater has cast some checks and converted some stocks in what they say was the amount of a year’s salary.
Theresa: Dun dun done. Here we go.
Angie: Do with that what you will. So I find this interesting when you consider that FDR chose him over Tammany’s Hall Pick, but Tammany Hall is known for this type of thing. So is it like one hand feeding the other sort of thing?
Like, you don’t know what I’m actually trying to accomplish, so I can’t tell you this, but I’m really upset that you didn’t pick my guy kind of thing. Anyway, the efforts of the police are useless. Shocking, I wonder why. We’ve just discovered that there is a committee investigating corruption in the police department. Okay. Okay.
Theresa: Yeah, they never find anything. change. Right?
Angie: They find like Bubkus. Now, his wife is less than helpful almost the entire time. She is refusing to speak. She is refusing to come to New York until like January of the following year, so 1931, because the whole time they have a grand jury opening or open regarding all of this, and they are trying to determine what the heck happened and investigating as many witnesses as they can. So you would think his wife would be like, Yes, I will come down and speak to the grand jury.
She does not. The grand jury by that time is unable to determine anything, whether he’s alive or dead, they have no idea. So the wife finally comes back in January of 31. Now, when she returns, she reaches out to the DA’s office and she tells them that she found a few envelopes in a drawer containing around six thousand dollars in cash, which I guess in today’s money would be over a hundred grand and a list in the judge’s handwriting of companies and individuals who owe him money a thirty thousand dollar insurance policy that’s listed her as the beneficiary and one of the envelopes contains a note to her that ends with very weary love Joe she reports this all to the district attorney now she says the police must have overlooked it because it’s been in the house the whole time but they searched the house like four times and they never saw it. Additionally all the stuff that Crater’s assistant had helped him pack back on August 6th and move to the apartment was not there. Additionally and another thing they examined a police officer who did the investigation in the house and he was able to from memory tell them everything that was in that room except for those letters so that’s the that.
Theresa: So, yeah, super sushi whatever if she’s involved she placed them there but who knows she may have just been having had them at the main house and brought them but she says they were in the New York apartment. Anyway all of this happens and nobody has any information nobody can find anything she sends out personal private investigators they’re they’re searching nothing. Nine years go by on June 6th 1939 Crater is officially declared dead at her insistence allowing her to collect at least a portion of his life insurance now she’s gonna write a book later saying that he was always faithful to her and the reports about the other women were absolute lies by
Theresa: 79 they’re gonna be the lies they tell ourselves
Angie: right that’s that’s what I thought the whole time like if everybody else in the story knows he’s out seeing showgirls what is she doing with her free time and also real really, look you
Theresa: honestly I there’s examples I want to give but then I remember this call is recorded and I’m like you know what I’m just gonna let this go.
Angie: Like it’s just what are you gonna do? So you can imagine there’s no resolution but there are tons of ideas w as to what could have happened among others it could have been Tammany Hall it could have been other political factions a scorned lover the mob or a little of column A, a little of column B.
Take your choice. I’m gonna give you a a few clues that have come out since then in 2005 a sealed letter is found by the granddaughter of a woman called Stella Fuchucci good. She died April 2nd she leaves this letter saying it was in regards to the missing judge and please don’t open it until she’s dead well when she is officially dead the family does in fact open the letter and it details the story that her husband Robert Good had told her saying that he had once years before been privy to a conversation between a New York policeman called Charles Burns and his cab driver brother Frank Burns. Now apparently the way he was privy to this conversation is he was the guy in the neighborhood that everybody like came to drink and barbecue with that kind of thing.
Yeah. And I’m thinking it was one of those like loose lips kind of moments and and these brothers just tell all they say that in August of nineteen thirty Frank picked Crater up and drove him to Coney Island where his brother was a cop working the Coney Island beat. They and other accomplices kill Krater and bury him on Cloney Island under the boardwalk near West 8th Street so like holy cow you have a confession and a location but what’s the motive here’s the problem in the 1950s they would that would become the site of the New York aquarium so one source says they found several human humans remains down there during construction but they reburied him in an unmarked grave elsewhere so we may never know who was down there to begin with and how long they were there like whose human remains were these Okay, sketchy super sketchy.
Theresa: Now the Wall Street Journal says quote no real lead materialized this is the one that absolutely pulls my brain I love this one no real lead materialized for more than two decades but in nineteen fifty four a dying Harlem butcher named Henry Cross Krauss excuse me who had once owned a house in Bronxville told cops that Crater Healy and a man with the last name of Iwald had used his place to party with whores, and that they had once buried $90,000 in city graft in the backyard. He said he had gone to the house the Sunday after Crater disappeared and found the kitchen a bloody shambles in the backyard dug up.
In another flabbergassing turn, this is wild. This is all the from the Wall Street Journal. Another uh a magazine writer found a clairvoyant in the Netherlands who professed to confirm the story in detail and added that Crater’s body was buried in the basement of the house. Now at some point after this confession, I believe it was either Life Magazine or Newsweek.
I didn’t put which one it was. They fund an excavation of the yard. They find nothing. However, I’ve got questions about why you don’t know why your cat your kitchen is covered in blood.
Theresa: Yeah, I’d have questions. If I come from my kitchen’s covered in blood, I’m not stopping until I figure out what happened.
Angie: And and your friend has gone missing, like oh, and the $90,000 is gone.
Theresa: It take your pick to any one of those, because the last time I came home and my house was covered in blood, it was because the cat brought home a toy that was still alive and batted it around the house to code everything equally in the carnage.
Angie: They were just helping. They were redecorating for him. Now another option is he could have double crossed legs diamond, the Irish American gangster, or any number of showgirls. There is one who thought he loved her, but she was located just a few weeks later in a hospital dealing with rheumatism brought on by a very severe case of gonorrhea.
Oh my. Yeah, so she was busy at the time. Um there is also one that was known to swindle over Schmucks like Crater using the help of Leg Diamond. Her name is Vivine Gordon, and she would be found strangled five days after threatening to reveal details of all of her high profile clients to some rather corrupt investigators.
So there’s that. Supposedly after her death, they find a diary containing the names of three hundred very powerful and very likely corrupt men. Crater’s name was on the list. So there is no definitive smoking gun or answer What I think is it was definitely politically motivated. I think that FDR becoming the president was um because if he won basically the gist is if FDR gets the second governorship of New York, he is bound like he is going for presidency, and if they can get a Democrat on the ticket, anybody’s gonna beat Hoover.
They just need to get the right okay, yeah. So I think whether whether FDR was d in was excuse me, whether FDR was directly related to this, had any knowledge knowledge of this, who knows, but I think somebody was trying to shut Crater up. They knew he knew just a little bit too much. The other thing that makes me wonder is it a little call A, a little column B, is that he could have been out at Krause’s house and there could have been a whole insane incident that required the kitchen to be covered in blood before or after the two boys from Coney Island.
Theresa: But it all would have been for you.
Angie: Who knows? I think that everything is related to everything else. Tammany Hall, Legs Diamond, FDR, like everybody’s in everybody’s sphere and in each other’s pocket in some way. Whether it’s it’s I’m not trying to put shade on FDR, but but someone in his campaign knows what’s up or did. One way or the other, and maybe only everybody knew one part, but ever somebody knows what happened. Whether they’re still alive or they’re all dead is irrelevant. But what the hell happened to Judge Crater?
Theresa: Well, thank you for leaving me with only questions. You’re welcome.
Angie: Get out your murder board because I’ve been thinking about it for days. All right.
Theresa: Well, fine. Um I’m gonna sharp pivot. I’m going a very different direction because screw this game. I’m going home. I’m gonna tell you about Mother Joseph. What is this name sound familiar? Yeah, you you don’t know who she is.
You don’t know who she is. Okay. You don’t. Um Okay. my sources. I okay, first off, I’m gonna own the fact that basically you’re gonna get a darn near resuscitation of the brickmojo.net website
Angie: It broke
Theresa: mojo.net brick mojo now if this sounds suspect I promise you it’s legit they cite their sources there um their size their sources are a lot of really old rare books about very local history to Vancouver Washington. Okay. Um are you going to Brick Mojo?
Angie: No, I’m typing in my story notes so I don’t forget.
Theresa: Okay. Um but they have the founders of this website have a podcast that is now defunct, which is too bad. The podcast is called Two Witches, and most of the published episodes are about Mother Joseph, whom they shorthanded as Mojo.
Angie: Okay, this makes the website make sense. Yes. Um Okay.
Theresa: now another source I have is Historic Trust, the Providence Academy history page that they have there. Okay. Okay. Now this story was recommended that I tell by YouTube uh there’s a username Mr. Blue N G H2 H D. All Alright all right he said I needed to cover Mother Joseph and the Sisters of Providence and I was like but all right let’s play this game.
What do we got? Now April 16th 1823 Esther Perizou is born she is the eldest elder name, isn’t it um she’s the eldest daughter of ten children um she grows up she’s going to be the she she will become Mother Joseph of a sacred heart okay that’s spoiler this is where we’re going now she grows up learning both traditionally feminine taught skills sewing embroidery mommy teaches her that and then she learns the construction skills from her father Joseph Parizou and he he’s a carriage maker okay that’s cool right okay now she is kind of this little revolutionary this little this little radical because she deeply admires her brother who’s also named Joseph so father Joseph brother Joseph she will later become Mother Joseph so everybody is Joseph everybody is Joseph this is like the Marie Lebaux episode where everybody’s Marie. Yeah okay okay Joseph Joseph exactly you say Joseph and five people turn their head go yeah uh now her older brother Joseph whom she loves uh he led a militia allied with the Sons of Liberty in response to some political turmoil that’s going on in French Canada at this point we have the Napoleonic wars that are raging in France and over in the new world in French Canada the Catholics are fighting for their right to practice their religion okay her brother has this oversized ego because he’s given this role of leadership and this irritates Esther so badly that she founded a chapter of what she called the younger sons and daughters of liberty as a home guard militia.
Angie: Okay I love her she has over 40 10 to 14 year old boys and girls
Angie: love the and she’s what she’s 15?
Theresa: She yeah whatever it is you know she she’s not on her own yeah um she’s training them including her older brother Stanislaw Stanislaus being male he’s technically in charge of this whole brigade but she takes over regularly no complaint from the brigade you
Angie: know game recognizes game and all that yeah
Theresa: it’s at this point that her father pulls this ultimate move he uh he advised her that he had received a message directly from God and from this they should cease their revolutionary activities and so she agrees to give up the fight and disband the brigade lame but dad’s like it is only going to take a word of God an act of God to get this child to not there
Angie: is no amount of bribery that is going to work here
Theresa: yeah and honestly this made me think of the children’s crusades
Angie: yes okay yeah I was just reading something recently about another time when just like in a whole village of kids went missing, that it was before the children’s crusade and before the whole Pied Piper. Yeah. And I’m like, wait, what? Excuse me?
Theresa: Well, okay. So I realize we we better say it. So let me look this up real quick. So the children’s crusade is insane.
Angie: It is It’s an early episode too, isn’t it? Like before the hundreds.
Theresa: It is 83, the children’s crusade of 1212. Wild. Yeah, so and that’s basically where over 10,000 twelve year olds decide that they’re going to go to the holy land. Spoiler, it doesn’t go well. No. Spoiler, there were a couple of them, which is even crazier. Um Now, I have a I have a quote from one of the books.
Okay. By the time she was twelve, she knew the name and purpose of each of her father’s tools. Moreover, her hands knew the feel of them.
Sometimes he permitted her to put them carefully in place for him in the meticulous order, which is the mark of a craftsman. Very early, he taught her how to grasp the three-handled hammer to the best advantage. She loved the power that came with the study of its sturdy strength. She liked to keep it with her, hooked over her belt when not in use. She also learned to use the knife, the saw, the chisel, the draw knife, the spoke shave, the bit brace, the plane, the square. She watched iron become white hot in the forge and shower sparks as it was shaped and hammered on the anvil. Sometimes even she was allowed to take brother Jo she was allowed to take Joseph’s place with the bellows. She wait she was not only fascinated and awed by something serviceable and practical emerged from her father’s workshop. She was also kindled to emulate his creative achievements.
Angie: That is such a write-up. Yeah.
Theresa: So wow girl knows her way around some some things. And one of the things I don’t think I put it in my notes. After she ends up taking orders, after she becomes Mother Joseph, right? You need to understand this nun is over six or is six feet tall. This is in the mid-1800s. And she would regularly have a hammer hanging from the belt of her habit.
Angie: This isn’t weird. I I this seems normal.
Theresa: Yeah, I mean, could have been a rosary. She’s got a hammer. You’re gonna listen to mother. We’ll have a thing, okay? Yeah. So yeah, you just that that’s what you need to know when I when I talk about her, okay. Now, Esther, when she’s about twenty, she names herself Joseph after her father, her brother, and the father of Jesus, and then also after Saint Joseph, who’s known as the worker, because she has felt a special connection to him throughout her whole life.
Angie: So she joined she was 20 at this time?
Theresa: She’s 20, and she joins the Sisters of Providence. Okay. Um she also named herself after the sacred heart of Jesus and had a life of what she saw as synchronous synchrone secrensities. Synchronicities? I feel like I can’t say that. Sure.
Angie: Um I’m not sure if I could say it right.
Theresa: Signs of God’s divine providence. Okay. Um, and so basically every time she was like, you know what, this lines up, the dots connect. This is the God’s will, this is how I’m going, right? Mm-hmm. So ultimately, you need to know by age 20, she’s got an unusual set of skills. Everything mom’s taught her, everything’s dad’s taught her, and both have taught her equally.
Love this. Her father proudly introduces Esther to Mother Emile Gamelin. And Mother Emile Gamelin is the first superior to the House of Providence.
And this is this is December of 1844. He says, quote, she can read and write and figure accura accurately. She can sew and cook and spin and do all manner of housework as well. She’s also learned carpentry from me and can handle her tools as well as I can. Moreover, she can plan and supervise the work of others. I assure you, Madam, she will someday make a very good superior.
Angie: Okay, like it when you’re when your dad can speak up for you.
Theresa: But okay, imagine you go in for your entry level gig, and your father’s like, one day she’s gonna be running this place. Dad, shut up, shut up, shut up.
Angie: I can appreciate it. Go dad go.
Theresa: I mean, I I kind of love this, but at the same point, like I know my kids would never allow that. I’d be kicked in the shins.
Angie: To each kid their own, right? Each kid is different. Like, well, if wise for for Ethan will not for Owen and vice versa. I only have the one, so each kid is different and they’re in the same house. Fair.
Theresa: So either way, we need to remember, six feet tall, she’s got blue eyes, and she has a very strong personality. I wouldn’t have guessed. No. Now, As I kind of have told you, you know, with some of the descriptions, our girl knows her way around the tool shack. So she can also identify the appropriate quality of yum lumber for its various usage. She can farm, she can draw up architectural plans, she can construct buildings, she can make bricks.
Like this is insane. Like when you think about the colonists who came and established or Jamestown who did a crap job and didn’t know any of the skills, this girl knew all of them. They could have used her. Yeah, well, she was also a couple hundred years later. But you know, I I dig right.
Angie: Well they could have used a version of her. Right.
Theresa: Now she is sometimes listed as the first female architect in North America, but apparently that honor belongs to a different woman named Louise Blanchard Bethun. Um now. I I know I cut out a bit about who Bethune was, even though I think that she deserves her own her own kudos, but this ain’t her story. So we’re moving on. Okay. So at this time, basically, architects can basically only be dudes. Shocking. And so to learn the trade, you need to have a male do this. But our girl being just has had to really come at it from a variety of different ways. Okay. Now, both Bethan, the first the literal first female architect and mother Joseph, are actively credited for important architectural buildings in by 1881.
The soon had opened her own offices and married woman in 1885, and this makes her the first professional female architect. Okay. Okay. They both seem to use this Parisian Beau Arts principle in their designs, even though we have this school of fine arts that doesn’t admit women until 1898.
They have They have buildings built by 81. Okay, let’s go. Now I also need to remind us, because in our modern world, we have we don’t necessarily live in this ancient or ancient world, this old timey world. It’s really hard, it’s not impossible, but it’s hard for women to construct business transactions. They need a trusted male to assist them.
Thanks. You know, can’t own proper or can’t buy property, can’t have credit cards, can’t open bank accounts, right? So this really frustrates the crap out of Mother Joseph. Because everybody that knew her, including her father, realizes that she is just made for greatness. She’s got this extraordinary woodworking skills. She’s basically a child prodigy. She feels that her woodworking skills are literally God given.
are Okay, let’s go. She’s also kind of pissed off that those ovaries get in her way of everybody taking her serious. But as it’s also fact, done, she’s able to operate outside of those strict religious standards, and dudes are supposed to take her serious.
Get it, girl. Now, it’s really awesome that her family didn’t say, No no, you’re going to marry Pierre. Instead, they were like, You want to join the God’s service? By all means. We’ll drive you to the convent.
Angie: I’ll even give your resume to the mother superior.
Theresa: I’m gonna go sing your praises myself, darling.
Angie: Stick it to the mother supreme.
Theresa: For those of you playing at home in a previous episode, Angie couldn’t remember superior, and she said Mother’s Supreme, to which my brain went straight to Taco Bell.
Angie: To this day, I still picture a taco in a habit.
Theresa: I’m like, oh my God. It’s just there’s just sour cream where the white is. Yep. Yeah. Now there are several attempts. Okay, basically, the nuns are in Quebec. They’re in Montreal.
Okay. Uh Vancouver is British or freshly not British. We’re still at that that interesting stage here. You know, Esther Short has her own homestead in down what is now damn down Vancouver. So there’s all of this going on, right? There have been multiple attempts to get a group of Catholic nuns to what is now Vancouver, Washington.
Angie: It seems wild that they all they had multiple attempts and one just didn’t work the first time.
Theresa: There’s a lot of wilderness. And apparently they go by boat. Oh, well that’ll do it. You know, and I don’t know if if anybody’s looking at a map. Montreal to go by boat to Washington State. That is an interesting trick. Yeah. Yeah. Without a Panama Canal.
Angie: And I’m assuming you’re not going by boat through the uh Great Lakes and then like overland for a while and then by boat again.
Theresa: Yeah, unclear. I didn’t get a full m route, but they yeah, I I’m gonna pick up on that thread. Now 1856, sister Joseph has chosen four other companions as missionaries to the Pacific Northwest Territories. And she gets promoted to Mother Superior.
Cool. So she’s got a promotion, she’s got a squad, and they head out. Now, They have a long journey. This is a fairly difficult one at that. It is so bad because they’re the keel of their boat is having a tough time. At some point it hits the bottom. There’s see okay. The Columbia River, like to get into the Columbia River from the Pacific Ocean, that is called the graveyard of the Pacific.
Angie: Shucks, I bet there’s a reason. Yeah.
Theresa: The boat is scraping the ocean floor. Ooh, Okay. So at some point, the nuns end up like on their knees praying, like, dear Lord deliver us, get us through this. Like they pray that boat all the way through. And they’re able to make it to Fort Vancouver.
Angie: Is Esther there? Like w would she have been among the greeting party? Standby. I’m sure I’m I’m creating like a visual understanding of the time frame.
Theresa: Esther would have been there. Yeah, because cool. Yeah, Esther. Esther would have yeah. this So this is like 56. That’s awesome. Uh in case you’re wondering, Esther Short, now I get to do that. I didn’t do any of this prior to.
Angie: Knowing I was gonna ask this question, because you knew I would.
Theresa: So Esther Short, episode 60, she is the woman who made Vancouver, Washington. Like literally filed the paperwork, gave the land for downtown, and it is now the Esther Short Park and neighborhood.
Thank For those playing at home. So yeah, Esther Short was probably not there when they got off the boat, but they went right by her homestead, and she was probably like, you keep that boat going. Don’t you come throw down my fence.
Angie: The fence is finally fixed. Yeah. Again.
Theresa: So they get to Fort Vancouver, but there is like first off, everybody at the fort is expecting a group of nuns. That much we know. Okay. When they get there, nobody prepared a place for them to sleep. Nobody prepared anything for ’em. They knew they were coming, but they didn’t ready the guest room. That’s rude. Isn’t
that kind of vacuum? No. Rude. I don’t even pick up the underwear on the ground. This is how we live. Live
with it. So they end up really like primitive things, right? Like they end up kind of staying in a attic. It just it sounded rough. Like pretty convinced. not
the Right. Now, any other bad band of nuns would have gotten back on the boat, but Mother Joseph, she jumps, she hops to, goes right to work. She’s making friends at the Fort and Hudson’s Bay Company, and she begins surveying for supplies in the area. Mind you, she only speaks French.
Angie: In the formally not French, but very almost English. Yeah. At a time when we’re not okay, well, Wow.
Theresa: Yeah, yeah. and so she she needs to rely on uh one of the other nuns to translate everything for her. Later on, she picks up English pretty pretty quick, I mean as quick as she can. Um, but her English is always it’s described as halting. Like it is not the fluid French. It
is not beautiful. Um, I think she’s also very direct and to the point, and I’m pretty sure her English accentuates that. Okay. Now, because of her skill set, she’s able to renovate a small building, and they’re given a bunch of materials from the Hudson’s Bay Company, and they establish a Catholic compound and grew this little tiny lot into the head of a diocese. Okay,
that’s cool. Since she’s an architect and artist, she tried to design her buildings with the thought that God’s poor and infirm deserve to be surrounded by beauty. And so she’s responsible for designing buildings, their construction, fundraising. She goes on these bagging tours into mining camps. They
last for several months, and she raised between 2,000 and $5,000 towards her projects. That’s a chunk of change. That’s a huge chunk of change. And I know better than to go into the inflation calculator and go before 1918 because those numbers don’t make sense to me with how bad they are.
Angie: Well, just knowing that in 1930, 5,000 is a hundred thousand today. Right.
Theresa: It’s it’s it’s not a small group of cash. As she’s doing these bagging tours, these apparently, unsurprising, are dangerous because you’re talking about mining men who haven’t seen a woman in days.
Angie: Right. They don’t care. Woman of God, that just means nobody else has had her. Oh. Yeah, I know. Look, look. Look. Um, okay. They have they’re up against bears, cougars, wolves. They’re like, there were a couple of things that I read that kind of talked about like how they recognized as they were setting down a camp, that they were fighting off wolves. They
realized that if they had the fires that the bears wouldn’t attack at sunrise, one of the bears won’t a grizzly went after one of the horses. It just it sounded harrowing. Harrowing. Um Yeah. there’s attacks from the local indigenous tribes, and at one point, she ends up jumping in and saving another sister from drowning.
Angie: Oof. Okay. We’re having a big thing.
Theresa: And I can’t imagine a wet habit isn’t heavy.
Angie: I mean, yeah, no. Still thinking about Taco Bill. It’s gonna be heavy.
Theresa: She ends up also at some point outwitting a gang of robbers. She convinces one of the younger thieves to hand her a bag for a moment. Um, and then she quickly hid a ton of money in her underwear. Love it. I mean, I don’t know the full mechanics of that because again, that’s a big habit, and I can’t imagine, you know, lifting up meter.
Angie: Like boomers.
Theresa: Okay, maybe, but still, you gotta get that habit up to your chin to be able
Angie: to Oh, listen, she’s been wearing that habit for years now. She knows how to go to the bathroom.
Theresa: She’s made a habit. And that’s okay. That was unintentional. I hate it. I don’t don’t laugh. I don’t need that one.
Angie: Now go ahead and delete it. I dare you. I won’t.
Theresa: And then I have to deal with that delete comment now. Um 1873. So when you were in Vancouver, do you remember seeing the Providence Academy? It’s a massive three three-story building.
Angie: No, you know what I remember is Paul Bunyan. That’s in Portland. Yeah, that’s what I remember. That is like what I remember. Okay. And the bridges.
Theresa: Yeah, well, yeah, we got lots of those. Um, but 1873, she built the Providence Academy. This is a massive three-story building. It is the at the time, largest building north of San Francisco.
Angie: Okay. That’s a that’s a building. Yes.
Theresa: It is built in a cross straight shape because our girl had Jesus on the mind. She needed one million bricks to build this.
Angie: Oh, and she knows how to make bricks.
Theresa: She does, but this is kind of incredible thing. She ends up meeting a guy named Wool Hidden, and she goes to Lowell and she goes, Hey, look, you’re great in construction. You’re
fairly well known in the area. Uh, I need a million bricks. He goes, I don’t know how to make bricks. She goes, here’s a book on how to make bricks.
Angie: Could could the Mother Supreme have been perhaps a bit narrow spicy?
Theresa: I mean, honestly, this wouldn’t me. So and okay, next time you come to Vancouver, you come you come see me. We’re gonna go down downtown and you’re gonna you were gonna go on a little walking tour and we’re gonna look at the brick buildings. Okay. Okay,
and I think we’ll also go to the smoke and oak barbecue place because I know like it’s made the the building is old, one of the older buildings in downtown, and it’s made with these old bricks, and there are bricks that say hidden on them.
Angie: Ooh, so they could have been from his own.
Theresa: They were exactly from him and that’s okay. So the hidden bricks. And I remember thinking hidden. What a weird thing to put on a brick.
Theresa: Like until now.
Angie: inside somebody’s head, Like, you know, like that’s where my brain went. But she taught him how to make these bricks. And so not only did she say she wanted a million bricks,
Theresa: she for this building hand inspected every brick. Because they needed to make her specifications. Don’t doubt it. Which mind blowing. And she she would end up testing the work on all of her projects on what they needed to be. Does this beam hold weight? Let me dangle from it. You know, like this kind of crazy like. I like her. She is known for being a stickler to detail. She’s inspecting rafters and testing the wood by bouncing on the planks to ensure that they can support her.
Angie: Okay, it’s not gonna work if it can’t support her. Yeah, it’s gonna support a roof.
Theresa: She ends up getting into a disagreement at some point with Lowell Hidden over his brick quality.
Angie: That was not all my bingo card for the day.
Theresa: To argue with a nun. Okay, and at one point over bricks? Over bricks. And then that he just learned how to make.
Angie: That she insisted he learned how to make.
Theresa: Exactly. Now um at some point he goes to her and he says, Hey, uh, these bricks are gonna cost quite a bit more than I originally estimated. And she’s like, that’s fine. We had an agreement. I’m giving you X dollars for X number of bricks. Sucks to be you. Profit margins aren’t my fault.
Angie: Yeah, stick to your guns, bud.
Theresa: You’re not gonna bulk a charity. That’s true, yeah. Okay. So I mean, but they end up mending fences over this, which I find lovely. There’s okay. If you read up on her, there’s going to be some folklore about how he cursed the bricks when she wouldn’t give him more money, and that that made the bricks and their use haunted. Okay, whatever. It sounds like bullshit. There’s
no literal source to find this that I could find that others that have looked for years and literally collect the old hidden bricks can find, so I’m just gonna go with them.
Angie: Can I just tell you what absolutely drives me crazy? And I was thinking about this in my story too. We don’t need to sensationalize things that are already sensational. Yeah. This is exactly that exact same thing. Like, really.
Theresa: Just stick here, just stick with it. The story’s good enough. We don’t need to gild the lily.
Angie: Yeah, we don’t need to make it cursed. Not that a good curse story isn’t fun, but this one, it’s not necessary.
Theresa: You say that, and this is great because I’ve got a great to add to her lore. Perfect. With without without, you know, being facetious. She has a special interest in the the native humans that lived here prior to the multiple tribes. Okay. She ends up developing a level of respect with the various tribes. Uh, and she’s traveling throughout Oregon, throughout Washington, Idaho, Montana. Like, she moves quite a bit. So much so, she ends up establishing the nickname from them Chief of the Black Robes. Okay, I love this.
Angie: Which is Do you think she came across um pleasant?
Theresa: Mary Ellen Pleasant. I don’t know. Cause see Mary Ellen Pleasant was clearly San Francisco based.
Angie: And I don’t hear me she went to Canada, but then she so she could have come up with it. Anyway, maybe I’m thinking of a different time frame. Sorry.
Theresa: Well, no, I think Mary Ellen Pleasant was around the same time frame.
Angie: But not giving to charities in Vancouver.
Theresa: When she was giving to charities, she was supporting her local black community. Right, that makes sense. Okay. And we have Mother Joseph who is supporting the children. community. Yeah. Like she’s building hospitals, she’s building schools. Like the Providence Academy was a school, and she’s like, look, the locals will give me money to build a school for them. And so she builds an incredible school. And that school would later become an orphanage and she would have an orphanage on the grounds. Like so she did the full.
Angie: So she’s she’s just a see it seeing Phil and Eed.
Theresa: Exactly. And she’s they end up mother, she ends up establishing, I don’t think I put this in my notes, but she ends up establishing an incredible hospital, the first St. Joseph’s hospital, and that there’s gonna be a ton of them that she ends up establishing, including the one that my husband currently works at. That’s cool. Yes.
But like we’re talking Portland loved being Portland, but they didn’t have a good hospital, and the the citizens were a little pissy when they had to venture across the river to Vancouver to get to a great hospital that she built.
Angie: You know, a good hospital is a good hospital. We’ll drive across the river.
Theresa: Well, I mean, I think at that point it was boat, but yeah. Okay.
Angie: That’ll work.
Theresa: Yeah. I mean, it’s a it’s a it’s a very committed drive if you’re gonna take our. But either way, okay, going back to her with the natives. Her whole family seems to because I think she had a brother who came with her at the same point as well when they came over. Um the Parizo family had a very deep connection to the Chinook Indian peoples in Oregon. Which was something that I got to read about. I
was like, oh my gosh, this seems really neat. I I appreciate her establishing a friendship, it seems like. Now, because we have very sexist sources of the time, Shocking. Because she is doing construction, because she has this endless drive, because she is very direct and has authority, those are considered masculine traits. Right. And so repeatedly, those first person sources are describing how masculine she is.
Angie: Okay. She can’t be pet feminine with authority. Hate that.
Theresa: Well, I mean, yeah, I guess she I guess directness is very masculine. Whatever, okay. You know, like, look, I’ve I’ve been told by people I went to high school with that I probably wear the pants in my marriage, and I just laughed and was like, he lets me think that.
Angie: As all good husbands do.
Theresa: Right. Like, let’s be honest. Like, when he says no, I kind of go, I’m gonna I’m gonna be angry about this for a minute, but we’re gonna I’m gonna I’m gonna go for a walk. I’m gonna go walk the dogs. Pout. Yeah.
We’re gonna fight about this in a later, but you you’re gonna win, but I’m I’m gonna throw my he’s never allowed to listen to this. I am barring him from this episode.
Angie: So I’m gonna text him when we’re done and be like, hey.
Theresa: Hey, make sure you’re in the room as she edits this.
Angie: Please and thank you. Uh let me know how it goes.
Theresa: Yeah, or set up the camera and just make sure that the audio is on. Um, Now, those first person sources, they’re talking about how she has for breathless descriptions of her of her artwork. Like, she is handcrafted the chapel in the Providence Academy, like the altar pieces, all kinds of stuff, and that still exists. That’s awesome. The uh Proto Cathedral, the St. James Proto-Cathedral in downtown Vancouver, which is like when we live downtown and we had the con like we could see it out the back, like lots of the woodwork there.
Angie: That’s so cool to be able to make those connections.
Theresa: Yeah, it is just that is incredibly like wait, what? Like just to see that she walked all that land and did all that work. Mm-hmm. So this was this was fascinating for me to study. Um so she has these incredible skills, this savant energy for woodworking and a restless drive. Like, in one of the things I was listening to on the podcast, they talked about how she was at the Portland St. Uh Joseph’s hospital, and she noticed that a chimney wasn’t built on the foundation correctly, and the workers had already gone home. So she takes the chimney apart brick by brick and rebuilds it all night correctly. Okay. And I can only imagine how filthy those habits were.
Angie: She had she had jeans on at this point. Yeah, by yeah, she’s wearing. one of us.
Theresa: But I mean, it’s still just like, holy cow. Okay. Here’s here’s a good quote for immensely occupied ever with creatures and material interests of the community. Mother Joseph never lost the presence of the creator. A vein of spiritual energy ran from action to action. Her masculine energy and her devotion to the growing West. Okay. Which this woman was an unshakable force.
Angie: She had a plan and she was going to handle it. Yeah.
Theresa: This energy of hers was put into motion for her career for 46 years. Wow. She built over 30 schools, orphanages, and hospitals in the Pacific Northwest.
Angie: Wow. Okay.
Theresa: Basically, by her hands established the Providence Health System that still is operational. That’s super cool. Yeah. She would end up losing her eyesight in one eye. And this would be the result of having what is described as painful metastatic breast cancer. Hmm.
She would end up going through several surgeries. And she would end up at the St. Joseph or St. Vincent’s
Hospital in Portland that she built herself. Could you imagine? Yeah. Wow. Okay.
Before she ends up going there. Like at the Providence Academy in Vancouver. Her room is right next to the chapel. As her eyesight was going and she was struggling, she had a little window that she had that she could slide open to hear and see the singing uh orphans during chapel. So she could be that close even though she was in the hurt locker. That’s
cool. So now back to St. Joseph’s in her final moments. She is unable to see sleep. She’s crying on and off. She’s in agony for days. And then she would end up slipping into unconsciousness on January 17th, 1902. But
okay, here’s the cool thing. So she had a sister that her and the sister kind of had a rough go from time to time named Sister Blindine. And they worked out, patched up, mended fences. She teasing Mother Joseph about her possible desired last meal in a final letter stating that she probably wanted, quote, a nice donut and a glass a good glass of fine Canadian wine.
Angie: Love a girl that knows what she wants. Right?
Theresa: And just have your friends be like, you know what? I know what you want. You want a donut. I got you. And you want some wine. I got you, Fran. Mother Joseph’s final words are recorded as Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. I
commend my soul into your hands. The other sisters held a vigil for her at her bedside for two days, witnessing her last breath in the academy on January 19th. 1902. 1902. She was 78 years old when she died. Wow.
Angie: And that whole time, you know, she was just looking at every corner in that building. Yeah.
Theresa: Making sure it was perfect. That’s awesome. In 2018, after an extensive multi-year process, the historic trust selected marathon acquisition and development for the Providence Academy redevelopment project as a result of their commitment to the trust’s guiding principles for their preserv project preservation, compatibility, and fiscal sustainability, safety, and code compliance. And they decided to invest 40 million dollars in the new building and site-wide improvements. That’s awesome. And it’s wow.
Angie: I’m a color me impressed. Yeah.
Theresa: And that’s the story of Mother Joseph.
Angie: I love a good Mother Supreme story. Thank you. Yeah. You’re welcome.
Theresa: And I got to learn about hidden bricks, and now I understand more.
Angie: Yeah. And I’m because I was like, oh, it’s a hidden family. Oh, and then like, oh, and they lived in the hidden house, which is now a restaurant. Oh. I knew that was called the hidden house, but I didn’t know it was it was like I mean it’s barely out in the open. It’s not hidden. It’s kind of on the city.
Angie: She’s not doing a great job.
Theresa: Yeah, camouflage isn’t quite there.
Angie: I don’t know if you know what hide and seek is, but yeah, that ain’t it.
Theresa: That ain’t it. But I got to learn all about that. I kind of go, Oh, okay, great.
Angie: That’s awesome. That made my whole day. Thanks for that.
Theresa: You’re welcome. I mean, it’s not I feel like I don’t do a lot of heart warming.
Angie: Thanks for doing heartwarming one. Meanwhile, I’m over here pissing everybody off because I didn’t have an end of mine.
Theresa: Look, we all have our things. I demand beginning, middle, and end. You know what?
Angie: That just means the story’s not finished, right? One day we’ll hopefully find out what happened. Those are long. locked on. Well, and any record that could have been like a written like I did it is probably cake. It’s done.
Theresa: I can write one right now, but that doesn’t mean that it’s accurate. Yeah.
Angie: Yeah. I was literally thinking like, uh, you know what? I’m just gonna solve it myself. Like I’m just gonna go find all the documents and do it myself, and then I was like And the minute I do, everybody’s gonna be like, you just you just wrote this. So yeah. Well, thank you for that.
Theresa: If if you need to be, you know, an armchair detective or to do it all yourself, um, email us. We we have the the email in the show notes. So, you know, help uh help us out. Do our homework for us. Please thank you. We’ve we’ve been at this for 186 episodes.
Angie: We’d appreciate somebody else to do the homework.
Theresa: Yeah, every week straight. We’ve had no breaks in 1060 or 186 weeks. Yeah.
Angie: Get it together, people.
Theresa: Yes. Would you pull your weight for once? Virginia.
Angie: That was Vermont.
Theresa: Vermont. Yeah, Vermont doesn’t work. So sorry, we can talk all the crap we want about Vermont. They ain’t listening.
Angie: Yeah, they can’t hear us. Fine.
Theresa: And on that note, actually, you know what? If you know somebody in Vermont, force them to listen to this against their will.
Angie: But they had to be in Vermont when they listen to it. Yeah.
Theresa: And you need to email us pictures. On that note, thank you. Goodbye.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Unhinged History 
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