Listen to the episode here.

Old-timey history has tons of greats. Previously, Theresa and Angie lamented not having modern greats, until today. Theresa shares the Great Madison Butter Fire of 1991.

Join us as she regales Angie with the tale of 12,500 tons of dairy products going up in flames, releasing a river of cream and melted butter. This blaze took eight days to put out and was quite the event.

Angie shifts the episode’s tone dramatically as she tells us the story of how JFK was saved by a coconut. During this episode, Angie makes Theresa crack up when she admits to not realizing he served in WWII.

This episode pairs with:
The NW Butter Crimes
Bad Butter Rebellion
The bonkers story of the Second Pacific Squadron
Josef Mencik – the WWII Knight

Transcript

Theresa: Hi, and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast. The podcast where two compulsive nut jobs just want to eat chocolate and tell each other history stories. And I’m out of chocolate. 

Angie: I’m not. 

Theresa: I’m Teresa. And that is host two. 

Speaker 4: That is… I have chocolate and I am Angie. And I will interrupt her today. 

Theresa: And I thank goodness because I’ve had one of those days where I’ve taken my brain, rung it out, tried to fill it with knowledge it does not contain and pushed it sideways. Here we are. 

Speaker 4: And now it’s sitting in the corner crying while she’s carrying on. 

Theresa: And you know what? But I realized you took the entire episode last time and I teased you with a great… A recent great, a modern great. You sure did. You ready for the start? Yeah. 

Speaker 4: Did you know that last time was our hundred and fiftieth episode? It was. Mm-hmm. Look at it. I mean, it feels right to be met and it for 150, I think. 

Theresa: I kind of wish I could have done this for 150, but here we go. This is the great butter and cheese fire of 1991. Fondue? I mean, close enough. But this was suggested. This is one of those great things about being on TikTok. A user named Panda Hime07, they suggested this to me. And so I’m going to tell you about… Take my sources. 

I’m going to go start there. Wisconsin State Farmer. That’s the spot. 

Right? The Great Butter and Cheese Farmer of 19… Nope. The Great Butter and Cheese Fire of 1991 by John Onkin. Madison Metropolitan Sewer District. They have an article titled Butter River Cleaning Up Madison’s Largest Commercial Fire by Amy Stager. 

Speaker 4: So you have a sewer district as a source and I yelled that for the one time. I had Reddit as a source. 

Theresa: Okay, but here’s the deal. They have great information that I trust because they’re the authority on the subject. Okay, fair. 

Speaker 4: Oh, I’m watching how it… 

Theresa: You damn well should because I’m going to fight you for it. 

Speaker 4: Well, to be fair, the one I used Reddit on a source for has no other sources. 

Theresa: I know. I mean, look, I’m going to give you hell to give you hell. I don’t know if you know this about me, but if I just, like, am super quiet in the corner, check for breathing. 

Speaker 4: I did say your brain in the corner crying earlier. 

Theresa: But here I am still running that mouth. 

Speaker 4: You know, at least you’re consistent. I damn straight. 

Theresa: So journey with me. May 3, 1991, we’re in Madison, Wisconsin. There’s a four alarm fire that’s broken out at the CSW facility on Cottage Road. It’s near Highway 51 for those playing nearby. And apparently this… Not you, Vermont. 

Speaker 4: Dude. This is after a forklift experience of battery malfunction. I’m sorry. 

Speaker 4: A forklift experience of battery malfunction, I said? Okay. 

Theresa: Now, I didn’t know this, but I’m sure you’re well aware. I mean, I’m sure you look this up all the time. CSW is one of the largest providers of temperature-controlled warehouse storage in Wisconsin. In the Madison… Shopping? No, I didn’t know that. I mean, look, I wouldn’t be as pressured. You know what? We vacation there. 

Speaker 4: At the Freration Warehouse in Wisconsin. 

Theresa: Nice Airbnb. You know, we rent an RV, take it all the way across country, sit in the parking lot for a week, marvel at the engineering. 

Speaker 4: I can assure you, if you ever hear about me being in an RV, it’s not me, and I’ve been taken against my will. 

Theresa: Can assure you of that. These are your safe words? We’re RVing across the country. How amazing. Police, I’m going to need you to get a lock on this location. Facts. All right. 

Well, here’s what might tempt you. This location had more than 10 million pounds of government surplus butter, luncheon meat, cheese, and food products for Oscar Mayer, Swiss Colony, and many other food processing facilities from around the state. Government cheese. Government cheese. 

And see, it was like… But hearing it start with government surplus butter, I was like, you clearly have surplus syrup. Okay, fair. But like the surplus bit through me, I was like, just… That’s an extraneous word. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels like it was an unnecessary for sure. Like, just this butter. People are going to use it surplus or not. 

Theresa: Now, I should tell you that at the time of one of the articles that I used for this, there’s Madison Fire Department Chief Steven Davis. He was still in Newby with the Madison Fire Department. He’d only been there a couple of years. 

And when the fire takes off, he doesn’t arrive as part of the initial response, but he gets there in time to see the outside walls of the building collapse and let loose a wave of melted butter that engulfed everything. I’m not saying this is bad. 

Speaker 4: I’m just saying this as could I stick a bowl of pasta in there? 

Theresa: I mean, this really sounds like cloudy with a chance of meatballs. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, like what I’m hearing is recipe for a great pot of mac and cheese. 

Theresa: I mean, look, I’m not saying that this is even more spectacular than my great whiskey fire, but this feels… 

Speaker 4: At least nobody’s going to die drinking the river. Well, actually, I take that. 

Theresa: I mean, we’re not even very far in the story yet, Angie. How dare you? Sorry. Sorry. Now if somebody dies, you’re going to feel guilty. 

Speaker 4: I mean, it feels so bad. I’m going to have to read Ms. Starry card. Anybody brand them 40 years later to get a condolences card from somebody? 

Theresa: It’s like Hallmark didn’t make this card, so I had to break out the crayons. Sorry. Now Fire Chief Steven Davis says that he saw a river of butter, which cracks me up so much. There’s trucks, ladders, and other equipment in the middle of a sweet cream pond where five feet of butter collected in the low spots. And the more water the firefighters use, the more, quote, gooey stuff flowed out of the building, unquote. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. By around 3 p.m., there’s spraying water at this fire at a rate of about 5,000 gallons a minute, and they’re having some issues. 

Unimaginable. Apparently, the insulation in the walls of this warehouse are highly flammable. Because of course they are. Uh-huh. And the 50 million pounds of high fat food products fueling what essentially becomes a giant grease fire. 

Theresa: You’re having a big… 

Speaker 4: There isn’t one of those kitchen blankets big enough to solve this problem. No. 

Theresa: And apparently there’s high winds that are fanning the flames to adjacent warehouses. 

Speaker 4: So this could be like a chocolate meltdown also. 

Theresa: Yeah, it depends on what’s in that next building. Yeah, okay. I’m here for it. Is it piano storage? Is it cacao? Like, what are… Is it coconut butter? What are we playing with, you know? 

Yeah, I’m here for it. Lieutenant Gordon Bregren. I butchered that sorry, Madison Fire Department Lieutenant. He said 10 years after the blaze that when you’re reflected back on the size of the fire, he said a lot of times you can tell how big a fire is just by what you see coming in the distance, and you could tell this was going to be pretty good. This part cracks me up because A, hubs was a trained firefighter. 

B, I hung out at college with a bunch of firefighters because firefighters and… No explanation needed. Like, look, if you don’t get it, if you know you know. And they just really enjoy being able to put their skills to work. Yeah. Most of their calls are medical calls. And I mean, those aren’t as good as hours and hours of work. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, not nearly as fun. No. Unless it’s that cute old lady that keeps pretending to fall just so she has to get picked up by a firefighter. If I was a firefighter and that happened to me, I would be there every week. 

Theresa: You know, I don’t know if I would be. I’d be like Bertha. Grab my ass last time. I had a goose egg. I didn’t know you’d get a goose egg on your butt. Gertrude, can’t see yourself. I am going to tell all the little old ladies in your sewing circle all about this because this is atrocious. 

Speaker 4: That is exactly the type of firefighter I’d be. 

Theresa: I am the age of your grandson. This is ridiculous. Come on now, Bertha. Get it together. 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. All right. Can you look at my granddad? Your literal granddad? 

Theresa: Oh, no. Oh, sorry. You were still on the thing. And I was like, doot, doot, doot. Back to the story. 

Theresa: Now, the fire at this point has been going for several hours. And the foods from the warehouse are oozing out into the surrounding area and they become this giant river of butter. 

Okay. It’s a mixture of water, melted butter, and other food materials that are flowing into low-lying areas near the scene. Now, they’re wading through two to three feet of butter and then in some areas it’s getting up to five feet deep. Gnarly. This is gross. And like our man, Chief Steven Davis, said, I had butter in places a guy shouldn’t have butter by the end of the night. Which this just… 

Speaker 4: Listen, he’s a moisturized king. 

Theresa: And he just smells like the bad end of a popcorn bucket. Now, at one point while he’s battling the blaze, our moisturized king is sent to the roof of the adjacent building where he and a few others are focusing the hose on this fire for about eight hours. 

They are in it to win it. Okay. He finally comes down from the roof at 5.30 a.m. the next day. Good Lord. Okay. Like I didn’t think they brought that much water. 

Speaker 4: I’m still stuck on the fact that I can picture him. He’s marinating in butter. Like just throw some garlic in there. 

Theresa: Like… His feet had to just… Mmm. Yeah. Thoughts and feelings. Mmm-hmm. The next day, he and his team, they attempt to move the hose line further between two of the buildings. And he steps off a loading dock into what he thought was solid ground, but found himself chest deep and melted butter. So gross. Just to feel like this is good and then commit and then just write in… This is my life now. Yeah. This is… You know, just bring me a sandwich. This is the quicksand they warned me about in the shows. 

Speaker 4: Which we were totally prepared for growing up and have yet to see it as adults. We’re going to be as bad. 

Theresa: It is, but apparently melted butter was an option now. Well, you know, here you go. The fire crews from Madison, they’re on site for days putting out this fire. It spreads to that second building and then they have a third alarm that goes off. There’s hours later, there’s a… The building collapses and the fire threatened. The facilities, I should have looked at how to say this, and hydrous ammonia tanks. 

Speaker 4: Now… Oh my gosh, is this the science tanks that keep things from coagulating? Maybe. 

Theresa: I should have looked that up. Okay. But either way, tanks, ammonia, specialized ammonia, I’m just going to go with that because I can say that out loud and not sound like an idiot. And this spurs an evacuation of 3,000 residents in the half mile of this fire. 

Speaker 4: 3,000 residents in a half mile? It’s Madison, it’s crowded. Okay, you know what? In my mind, I was picturing this like a cute little town. I didn’t even make the connection that we’re… Okay, sorry. Burnham Major City? Yeah. Nope, I was imagining Bodunk Sonora, but in Wisconsin, you’re not going to see 3,000 people for miles. 

Theresa: You might get everybody together at a parade. That happened. Right. Now, during this fire, you’ve got the butter, you’ve got the food products, they’re discharged into this large, concrete lined, storm water channel that’s adjacent to this factory or warehouse. And this channel drains directly into Lake Monona. 

I was going to say Montana because it’s super close to that, but it’s not having the tea, so here we are. So the butter drains into this… Into this channel, and the channel that goes directly to the lake. 

Speaker 4: So now we’re making a crock pot. 

Theresa: Now we’re taking these food products and we’re introducing them to wildlife and fish. 

Speaker 4: Wildlife. Right. Yeah. Well, those fish are going to have… I mean, okay. Gross. 

Theresa: Now, typically you want your butter done in a certain way, you know? Yeah. 

Speaker 4: I mean, I want my fish covered in butter, but not like that. Yeah. You want to do it yourself. 

Theresa: Mm-hmm. Free or, you know, right as you’re cooking and post-cooking, not pre-cooking. And not… Oh, I’ve… Yeah, preferably. Now, the fire department, their job is to put the fire out, obviously, while trudging upstream through this butter flood. And it’s the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources’ responsibility to tame this butter river and make sure that it doesn’t taint the lakes and streams. 

Speaker 4: It’s not as scent as I ever thought I was going to hear. Tame this butter river. 

Theresa: Look, I am here for you. This story is the gift that keeps giving. 

Speaker 4: I am equally delighted and disgusted at the same time. Well done. You know what? It doesn’t have missing legs, but it has a butter. Which feels right for a Teresa story. If it doesn’t have a missing body part, butter’s probably involved. 

Theresa: I’ve done the butter crimes. I’ve… My butter stinkeths. Yeah, the bad butter rebellion. Yeah. Like, I’m okay with this. I mean, good for you. Surprising as it may be. 

Speaker 4: Now, I’m so sorry. I’m trying so hard to get it together. 

Theresa: Don’t, don’t please. This only enlivens everything. The City of Madison and the Department of Natural Resources, they use dirt or fill dirt to create dams in the channel to prevent this oil-rich liquid from reaching the lake, which seems logical to me. And this is happening as, because this is 1991, crowds of onlookers, TV cameras, and everybody are watching the activities, and the water level behind the dam continue to rise and to threaten to overtop the dams. 

Speaker 4: I hope what Bedia Commons has a solid news broadcast on this that we can watch. 

Theresa: Emergency worker Kent Kruger said in a 1991 interview, Six stories of butter melted and started flowing into the streets and sewers. We had to take an in-bloader and put sand on the burning butter. 

Speaker 4: Okay. A few minutes ago, when I said there is not a kitchen blanket big enough to solve this problem, my first thought was, I wonder if… I wonder if the next building over is full of flour and we can throw that at it. 

Theresa: I don’t think you want to throw flour on top of a fire. I’m pretty sure that too is flammable. 

Speaker 4: I think, and I could be very wrong on this, but I remember reading there is one particular kitchen fire that like flour or sand is what you want to throw on it, but I can assure you it is not a grease fire. So butter is not the one. 

Theresa: Butter is not the one for a grease fire. Let’s just… You know what? If you’re in the middle of a fire and you’re listening to this podcast, turn the podcast off. We’re not here to help you. Come back to us when you’re safe. We’re going to be the warm blanket and the hug. We are not here to help. 

Speaker 4: No, never. But yeah, mark yourself safe from our podcast and your butter fire. Yes. Yeah. 

Theresa: Now around 8 p.m. the city contacted the district to ask if the butter liquid mix filling the stormwater channel could be placed in the sanitary sewer system. District director of operations and maintenance, a man named Paul NEM, took the call from home Friday night from the city of Madison director of public works, Gary Nelson, just as the local CBS station broke regularly scheduled programming because they’re watching the show. Dallas with news and visuals of the flame shooting out of the warehouse. 

Speaker 4: The 90s were wild, man. 

Theresa: I didn’t realize how insane they were because I don’t remember this. No, I was a kid. Yeah. No. My husband doesn’t remember this. His family is from Wisconsin. He was in SCAR at the time. He seemed like me. Like you’d think that they would know this. Yeah. 

Speaker 4: No one remembers this. It feels like something you don’t forget. 

Theresa: You should like, I wouldn’t forget a river of butter. Are you kidding me? Yeah. No. Okay. So as this is happening, district personnel immediately go to the scene of the fire. So this is like the health and safety peeps, not the fire department. They’ve got staff coordinated with city personnel and they’re beginning to pump the melted liquid into the sanitary sewer system. 

They’re offloading all of this butter and as everybody else is trying to fight, oh, they’re also trying to fight the grease from clogging the lines that they’re using to pump out all the butter. Right. 

Speaker 4: Okay. That makes sense. It makes a ton of sense. We don’t get those notifications around Thanksgiving for nothing. Yeah. Maybe this is why. 

Theresa: They’re going to hit like early May if you’re in Wisconsin and December and every other state. Mm-hmm. Now, by the end of May 4th, more than 3 million gallons of melted butter and fire runoff had been pumped into the sanitary sewer. By May 5th, the rains came and the rising water levels threatened to send the butter flood over the last dam into the Stark Weather Creek. It gets better and better and better and better. The Department of Natural Resources had to quickly build another two dams before noon. That’s impressive. They got that done, but they either be through this all the way through. 

Speaker 4: Because I feel like, okay, the county, I live in, it would take six months for the first dam to even be approved. 

Theresa: I think, you know, when you’re in an emergency situation like this, it kind of speeds through bureaucracy. It greases the channels of bureaucracy, if you will. Good job. I do what I can, you know. 

Oh, I’ve died. Okay. By May 6th, another 11 million gallons had been pumped into the sanitary sewer. Gross. The fire is now under control, but something had to be done about all the congealed butter that had accumulated in the two ponds. 

Speaker 4: Just light it on fire in the pond. Oh, yes, that doesn’t work. 

Theresa: Okay. You’re trying to just come up with additional ecological disasters. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, my initial thought was if you light it on fire in the pond where it’s at, like, to be processed, that would solve the problem. But that’s how we got here in the first place. I don’t see it. I don’t see it. 

Theresa: So the DNR, the Department of Natural Resources, they said the U.S. Department of Agriculture brought in salvage contractors to remove the food waste. The few following weeks are dedicated cleaning up. Huge piles of meat and rubble are being hauled off to the Dane County landfill, staying ahead of rain and heat that re-melted the congealed butter as they gradually pumped the butter out of the tank. And then they put it into containment ponds. That’s so gross. According to the state’s DNR records, the fire resulted in the release of a thousand pounds of that ammonia mixture, 5,000 pounds of food products, including hams, hot dogs, bakery items, and cranberries. Okay. The cranberries, they snuck in there. 

Speaker 4: You’re dead. Didn’t see that one coming. You know you gotta get your healthy food, too. 

Theresa: Yeah, you gotta just sneak it in there. There were 12,500 tons of dairy products, mostly butter and cheese. And the archive estimates the losses at 7.5 million in property damages and 70 million in contents. So the surplus is in the negative now? 

Yeah, it’s no longer a surplus. Chuck’s. And that blaze took eight days to put completely out. That is insane. 

Yep. Now, after two weeks after that fire broke out, the Department of Natural Resources said efforts to clear the spoiling meat products and to keep the melted butter out of the waterways was a success. 

Speaker 4: Well, that’s good. 

Theresa: Yeah, it’s a success. Now, they said that they’d been monitoring the waterways and very few fish died after the fire. And they say that this is remarkable because this butter river was so substantial. It appeared so quickly. 

And the crews had barely any time to assemble the materials and build embankments. Shocking. The sign outside of that facility that has this polar bear, that remains. And the cleanup cost approximately, you know, just over a half million dollars. 

And this was largely covered by CSW and a grant from the USDA. And in their attempt to clean up all the butter, the fire department is forced to throw away nearly all of the firefighter gear that was used. 

Speaker 4: Okay, I was going to ask. How did you get that out of their uniforms? 

Theresa: I think you give up. Just step one, give up. 

Speaker 4: Davis. Chuck it. Chuck it in the bin. We don’t need it anymore. Yeah. 

Theresa: Well, there’s something else that just hears something. This is when they got hubs. This made him feel gross. Davis is still new to the job at this point. He got stuck with steam cleaning the hoses that weren’t completely destroyed by the butter immersion. And he described the cumulative effect as a rotten smell, one that lasted for years and years at the fire station. 

Speaker 4: There is no amount of bleach that can get that out then, huh? Apparently. Gross. 

Theresa: The CSW warehouse has been rebuilt and any trace of the once mighty butter river that once flowed through the area has vanished. 

Speaker 4: I hope at no point while you were writing these notes you expected me to take any part of this story series. Nobody died. That’s a bonus. Right? That’s a real bonus. Yeah. 

Theresa: But that is the story of the Madison Butterfire. Or the Great Butterfire of 91. 

Speaker 4: I would like to know if it implies there was like a great Butterfire of 1643. I’m unclear. 

Theresa: But we have a recent great. So this is a win. A win is a win, Angie. 

Speaker 4: A win is a win and an absurd win. It could have been the Great Anything. And here you are working the Great Butterfire. I couldn’t be more impressed. You’re welcome. Yeah. I don’t know where my notes are. 

Theresa: You’re like, I am so flabbergasted that I refuse to look. 

Speaker 4: My flabbers have been gassed. Okay, I got them. 

Theresa: I didn’t know where my notes are. I don’t know where my notes are. Oh, they’re right here. 

Speaker 4: I thought that I was going to have to open another tab, but I didn’t. You’d be shocked to learn that I have a World War II story. 

Theresa: Oh wow, look at you. 

Speaker 4: But I bet you’d be more shocked to learn that my last World War II story was all the way back in September. I think enough time has passed for me to be back on my crap again. This feels weird. I know I had to look. 

Theresa: Like, for the two of us who can’t get off on who just, we cannot leave this well enough alone, like I’m actually looking and yeah, no, you’re right. This feels weird. Fix it. 

Speaker 4: Doesn’t it? Fix it. I will trust I’m going to fix it. This story smacked me in the face and I am so delighted to share it with you. Have you ever heard about the time a coconut saved JFK’s life? 

Theresa: Yes, but I have not retained the details. Like I’ve heard those weird bits. 

Speaker 4: Fabulous. So my sources are an article from The Hill by Barbara A. Perry from 22. Why President JFK kept a coconut husk on his desk? This is from the, like an Australian university like content education site. 

Okay. The Harvard Crimson, Harvard coaches recall Kennedy as a frail and mediocre athlete. A New Yorker article from World War II by John Hersey from June 10th of 1944. And then just to confirm a fact, the Hub History Podcast, Boston History Podcast, I have not read it, heard it. I just read the fact. They have a little blurb on JFK and his PT boat. But okay, so here’s the gist. There’s also a Smithsonian article, but I didn’t really use a ton of that. 

Okay. There is a great magazine called Coffee or Die. And that’s where the bulk of my story comes from. 

It’s written in August of 21 by Matt Fredis and it’s delightful. I got to tell you that I never once thought about JFK being alive during World War II, let alone serving during World War II. 

Theresa: Yeah. That’s so good for me. I feel like I knew that. 

Speaker 4: I never even thought about it. So when I was like, wait a minute, no, those are two very separate, like, those are very different timelines. He did not exist at that time. That’s not true. It’s a lie and I was wrong. 

Theresa: He just manifested at 35 and decided the presidency is for me. 

Speaker 4: I’m going for it. You can’t stop me. Yeah, it’s pretty much, yeah. Okay. So for funsies, John F. Kennedy is born May of 1917, just outside of Boston, obviously, to a prosperous family. None of this comes as a surprise, so we’re going to fast forward a little bit. It’s 1940 and as a student at Harvard, he writes his thesis paper regarding the appeasement in Munich. Now, this is obviously about the negotiations of the then Munich Agreement, which I mentioned before in a couple of episodes, but specifically, Episode 135, a Renaissance garden gnome about Joseph Mincik putting a little Lindsay into our world. Kennedy’s thesis paper with the help of his father and a few other men becomes the book called Why England Fletch, which I was like, whoa, that’s cool. I didn’t know that was a thing either because why would I? 

I didn’t even know he was alive during World War I. I never thought about it or during World War II. Never even thought about it. So here we are. It is worth mentioning that Kennedy Sr. was the US ambassador to the United Kingdom from 38 to 40. 

Yep. And he supports then Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain’s policy of appeasement. This stance doesn’t go over well for him and proves disastrous for the rest of his political goals to the point of him being removed as the ambassador. 

JFK would go against the support for the appeasement, especially since he had personally witnessed the Luftwaffe’s early bombings of Britain. In fact, proceeds from the 80,000 copies sold, the ones that sold in the UK went to the city of Plymouth to help rebuild that with bombings, which I think is a really cool fact. That is cool. The proceeds from the US sales bought Kennedy a Buick convertible. Man of few worlds, I suppose. 

Theresa: That’s a very kind way to put it. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. OK. So Kennedy at this point, he’s a young man and he is believing more and more that there needs to be an Anglo-American alliance to fight against the Reich. And he becomes increasingly more supportive of US intervention in World War Two. 

Now, I think it’s really interesting that while him and his dad do not agree on this at all, his dad fully supports his stance on it and helps him get the book, like his thesis turned into a book, which I thought was pretty cool, like Dad Muth, right? 

Theresa: Now, you’ve got to tell me he had to be like, this line, are you really sure about this line? This line’s a bit hard to say. 

Speaker 4: I’m 100% sure that’s how it went. But I do think it is at least we get a little glimpse of their relationship there, right? Like, I don’t have to agree with you, but I’m going to help you succeed. Now, Kennedy plans. 

Theresa: I said, did you just? No, I mean, I was pointing at you like you got it. And then I was like, you got quiet. Are you breaking up? Are you still there? I know. 

Speaker 4: I thought you were telling me, like, hold on. Sorry. Okay. Now, Kennedy, he plans to attend Yale Law School when he’s done with Harvard, but he cancels those plans when it becomes all the more clear that the Americans are going to enter the war. And in 1940, Kennedy tries to enter the Army’s Officer Canada at school, but again, he has fragile health, which means he could have avoided conscription from every part of the war, or at the very least, his family’s ties could have gotten him a cush desk job. 

Theresa: Oh, his family ties could have easily protected him, right? 

Speaker 4: However, instead of using those family ties for protection, he uses them to get the director of the Office of Naval Intelligence to Naval Intelligence to help him join the US Naval Reserve and is commissioned as an ensign on October 26th in 1941, and he joins the Office of Naval Intelligence in DC. 

But then in 42, to quote the Hill, instead, he enlisted in the Navy just prior to Pearl Harbor and used his family connections to engineer an assignment in the South Pacific War against Japan as a patrol torpedo boat skipper. So, OK, this is like weaponized nepotism. I mean, yeah, brilliant. His health is so bad, he should have been disqualified from any form of active duty. But Kennedy Sr. provides doctored medical records that his son’s health, like for his son’s life, and convinces PT boat officers that having Kennedy in their ranks would be good for publicity for the Navy, and it works. So he provides false documents and is like, yeah, PR campaign, the Navy’s going to love having my son around. 

Theresa: Wow, I really wish, like, I’ve thought that he’d have done everything he could have to kept his son safe as opposed to like, hey, harm’s way, here you go, I forged your paperwork to put my fragile little boy right on the front lines. 

Speaker 4: Pretty much. Now, he is assigned to the Panama Canal and they’re not really seeing any action, and he then uses those connections again by reaching out to Senator David Walsh from Massachusetts, who pulls strings to get Kennedy reassigned to the South Pacific where war is actually happening. So that’s kind of how JFK ends up in the South Pacific. And the whole time, unlike at any point, dad could have told you, no, sit down. 

Every time dad was like, let me make a phone call for you. So April of 1943, Kennedy is assigned to this motor torpedo squadron number two. On April 24, Kennedy takes command of PT 109, which is a wooden hull patrol boat that’s based at a Touloghi Island, which is in the Solomon’s. 

Okay. By August 1, their campaign, it’s called the New Georgia campaign. Kennedy’s commander hit a man called Promise G. Warfield, which honestly seems such an apt name for a man in battle. 

Theresa: You charge or you ascribe so much to the last names of people. Yes. Like names. This guy has the last name of a putz. He doesn’t need to be Admiral. Just down the vote of him immediately. Go. Crappy name. 

Speaker 4: You’re out. Names mean a ton to me. So Warfield gets intel that something called the Tokyo Express is due to arrive in their area. Very shortly. What is the Tokyo Express? 

You might ask. It is for Japanese destroyers and float planes carrying food and supplies as well as 900 Japanese soldiers. They’re on their way to the Villa Plantation Garrison, which is on the southern tip of the Solomon Islands. So Kennedy, his boat and 14 other patrol boats are out looking for this convoy, which seems like a lot if you’re trying to be stealth. Right? 

Yeah. But like maybe stealth isn’t their goal here. Matt Fratis writing for a coffee or diet magazine, writes that it is a moonless and starless night in the blacked strait, which is south of the Solomon Islands where our boys are situated and they are running silent to avoid detection. When all of a sudden Kennedy spots the Tokyo Express and the patrol intercepts three battleships and one escort. The patrol fires 30 torpedoes and not a single one hits its target. 

Theresa: Hello, Kam Chaka. Is this you? You’re like a stormtrooper. 

Speaker 4: Are you for real? The patrol then gets orders to return to base. However, the PT 109, which is Kennedy’s and three other boats form a line across the straight, which offers cover to the others to retreat. One of the PT boats has radar going and it is the only one and it takes off after the Japanese target, which we the other three boats literally flying blind. Now, their lack of radar is not the only problem our boys have. The skippers know full well that the phosphorescent plankton in these wonderfully warm tropical waters can easily turn their wakes into glowing targets from the air. 

Theresa: Oh, joy. So. The beauty of nature. Yeah. 

Speaker 4: So these boats are chugging on only one of their three engines to try and turn them to keep the water calm. It’s about two 30 in the morning when a shape looms into view and it’s traveling fast, like 40 knots or roughly 46 miles an hour. It’s on course to take out the PT 109. Initially, Kennedy and his 13 other men think it’s another PT boat and that it’s really not until the black hole of the Japanese destroyer. 

I’m going to butcher this. Amigurie like meets them that they realized they have they have made a critical error. Kennedy tries his best to swing the PT 109 right and hopes he’ll be able to bring the torpedoes in line to make a shot, but there’s not enough time. 

And in roughly 10 seconds, the Japanese destroyer rams the PT boat literally in half because it’s got a wooden hole. Yeah. Oh, not great. 

Right. Kennedy is thrown off his feet and just misses being a part of the very damaged cockpit. Two of his sailors are killed instantly and the rest are of course left like flailing in the water, right? The Japanese boat just steams away and it is so much bigger than the PT boat that its wake alone puts out the flames of the PT 109. Oh, that’s a massive wake. 

Yeah. How the hell you weren’t able to tell the boats apart? Baffles my brain. But anyway, Kennedy and five of his men are clinging to like this little floating section of their boat and he immediately starts calling out for the rest of the survivors. He gets like six replies. He finds his gunner mate, Charles Harris, badly wounded and the motor machine is made Patrick McMahon had suffered from burn injuries when the PT boat’s fuel tank explodes. No, thank you. We can’t just like have one accident. 

Theresa: No, no, we’ve got to have a myriad of things. There has to be a cascading effect. It’s not cinematic enough. It’s not butter. I mean, look, the butter has to try to kick off the ammonia tanks, which needs us to evacuate the residents who are being the looky loo. 

Speaker 4: Exactly. Exactly. So they’re only about a hundred yards from what remains of their boat, but it takes Kennedy three hours to rescue the two men in the dark because it’s dark. Yeah. Once everyone has collected a brief discussion is held about what to do next. 

Kennedy said later, quote, there’s nothing in the book about a situation like this. A lot of you men have families and some of you have children. What do you want to do? I have nothing to lose. 

A decision is made that all 11 of the survivors would leave the wreck and sinking boat and swim to an island that’s just about three and a half miles away. Just a measly, you know, 

Theresa: just says the man who’s allergic to cardio. 

Speaker 4: Pretty much. This island, it is called Plum Island. But fun fact, this is an absolutely manageable fee for Kennedy as he had been on Harvard swim team. Oh, OK, so that that he could do. 

Yeah. Now, while he wasn’t a top as top notch as some of the other swimmers, he was on the freshman team that Harvard considered to be their best ever. And evidently, like beating Yale is a big deal. So like swimming, he’s got that he can do that. But like other sports, that absolutely not. And he’s frail and he can’t breathe and all the things, right? 

Theresa: But there’s another problem with what you’re hearing. Yeah. 

Speaker 4: Nickman can’t swim. And I’m assuming that’s because of his injuries. So Kennedy takes Nickman’s belt or like the belt from his life jacket. It’s described different ways and different sources and sticks it between his teeth and toes him all three and a half miles. So he’s swimming for himself and for another day. 

Theresa: And basically being Fido holding this man’s belt in his teeth. Yeah. Yeah. Why? My mouth hurts already. And I’m not holding another man’s life in my mouth. 

Speaker 4: Literally. Two of the others also couldn’t swim, but they were either pushed or pulled along by those that could on like bits of wreckage, right? Kennedy, he arrives to the island first, but he is of course exhausted. So Nickman is able to help him get to shore like they work together to get to shore. But don’t worry, they’re not done swimming because they get a bit spooked when they see a Japanese barge go by. And it’s decided that Kennedy is going to swim down to Ferguson Passage, which is supposed to be a place that’s frequented by the American PT boats. To get there, he has to cross coral reefs, which like and whatnot. And after, I don’t know, another hour or so of swimming, he realizes their rescue is not coming, like not tonight anyways. So he swims. Like he’s making the swim back and that swim alone almost takes him out. Because you have to figure he’s been in the water now for like seven or eight hours, swimming, right? 

Theresa: And he hasn’t swam like this. This one back here. 

Speaker 4: Right. The swim backs got this super rough current and it forces him to stop off at an island southeast. Um, his, his men call the island Leo Rava. So for the next like couple of days, him and the other survivors that can swim are swimming back and forth to surrounding islands, looking for fresh water and food, like fresh coconut, if you will, like something to eat and something to drink. 

And then Kennedy and Ensign George Ross, they go exploring Nauru Island, which is the last island in the chain, but it overlooks the Ferguson pass. So they’re kind of like, okay, maybe if we can see what’s going on from there. Now, meanwhile, back on their, like where they’re, or the rest of their navy is, they’re assuming the ship is lost and they’ve died. So they’ve helped funeral services for the guys. 

And someone writes George Ross’s mama letter, talking about what a great man George Ross was and how he was the most, um, like he died for a cause he, he most aptly believed in and all the things, but like they’re, they’re alive and kicking. They’re just 65 miles to the south and can’t get radio. 

Theresa: I mean, I honestly, I feel for these guys. They’re just right. 

Speaker 4: Like, yeah, they’re having a day. So Kydian and Ross, Kennedy and Ross, they go explore this island. It’s the last island in the chain, like I said, but it’s overlooking Ferguson past. And while they’re there, they find some remaining, like leftover Japanese bits, including some pins of candy. 

Theresa: I said they’re remaining Japanese bits could have been anything. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, I realize that like Japanese, um, material. Okay. 

Theresa: Cause I was like, this is a little bit of time. So this could have been like arms. 

Speaker 4: So their problem is that the power in this area is Japan. So they’re, they’re the hunted, right? So, um, while they’re there though, they find a canoe and then two islanders paddling away. 

And so they’re like, huh, this could be, this could be good. So Kennedy makes contact with the two islanders the next morning and he learns their names. It is Bakuyu, Gasa and Aroni, Kumana. Hopefully I pronounced their names right. 

I’ve been working so hard at that. And they just happen to be part of the Islander post-watchers that works with the allies. Oh, hey. Right. So Kennedy carved the message into the skin of a green coconut that says, quote, Nauru Island commander, native nose, post it. He can pilot 11 alive, need small boat Kennedy. 

Theresa: Yep. Okay. And I remember this. Okay. I’m with you. Right. 

Speaker 4: The two Islanders take the coconut and the next morning they come back with a letter from the Australian coast watchers commander, a lieutenant, a Reginald Evans. Now this letter gives them some instructions. Go with the Islanders to go Moor Island in the black and straight. So Kennedy is hidden under pile of palm leaves and they paddle him to meet Evans through Japanese occupied territory and water. Um, and Kennedy’s just laying in the bottom of the canoe under palm fronds. Yeah. 

Right. When they meet Kennedy insists on having the two rescue boats, PT 157 and PT 171. He demands that they rescue him first so that he can guide them through the reefs and the shallows. So he’s doing it with a canoe. Like I will take you back. I will pilot you back in, but there’s reefs and their shallows and our boats need my help. Right. So on August 7th, Kennedy signaled to the other boats with three shots from his revolver and a fourth from his rifle, which seems like a little much. I feel like they would have seen eventually that he was there. Lady, but when he fires from his rifle, he’s standing in the canoe and the back pull. Yeah. Knocks him off balance and he falls into the water where the PT 57 rescue him again. 

Theresa: I mean, you say that and I don’t know why, but I imagined him in his tidy whiteies. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, I don’t think you’re too far from 

Theresa: like it just, it felt right just to be that unhinged. 

Speaker 4: I think you’re not, you’re not terribly wrong from what I understand. I don’t know the full visual, but yeah, that’s you’re not far from the truth. By August 8th, seven days after all this has started, his men were safe. And Kennedy was awarded the Purple Heart and the Navy and Marine Corps medal. He remains the only US president to do so. Now for funsies in 1961, Evans, the Australian coast watcher was invited to meet Kennedy at the White House. For 17 years, Evans had gone without notice because Kennedy couldn’t read his writing. So he didn’t know how to get ahold of them. 

Whoa. Now to keep the, so the 1944 article to keep the coast watchers involvement in the war secret and like what they were doing in the Pacific secret, the American press invents a one less tenant win-caught of the New Zealand infantry and that’s who Evans is. But they give him a fake name, a fake regiment, a fake everything so that it can keep the secrets of the Pacific, the secrets of the Pacific. Kennedy remains friends with the Islanders for the remainder of their lives, sharing letters, he even invites them to come to his presidential inauguration. However, they can’t come because of local politics. 

But that doesn’t stop them from being from town. And the coconut sat on his desk for his entire presidency. It also once went to Japan with his daughter when she met the wife of the captain of the ship who sunk JFK’s boat. Oh, yeah. 

And I think that I should mention that also in this water that they’ve been like trudging through for days, we are dealing with sharks, barracudas and evidently saltwater crocodiles and they’re giant. Yeah, none of this sounds fun. Yeah, I know. I know. Not even a little bit interested. 

Theresa: Like the only barracuda I’d want to interact with is, oh, a great. 

Speaker 4: I was like, absolutely not. Like the sharks were one thing. The barracuda for another. But to discover there are saltwater crocodiles just chilling out in the Pacific. I was like, no, I’m good. 

I’m so good. Yeah, but they survived. They made it out. They made it back. George Ross’s mother was delighted. 

I’m sure to find out her son did not perish. Yeah. Now there are those that believe all of this was Kennedy’s fault and could have been avoided and he shouldn’t have been awarded the Purple Heart, but he did in fact display great bravery and great leadership. 

Theresa: So, you know, okay, there you are. I think the moment you have enough gravitas, enough celebrity to your name. Anything you do is going to be torn apart left, right center. Oh, for sure. 

Speaker 4: For sure. You know, right? And I never wanted to be present. 

Angie: I already helped him. Yeah. Yeah. Same. Like, yeah. Right. 

Speaker 4: So, so Daddy Dears had helped him to this point. So there’s those that argue that he also lobbied to ensure he was awarded these medals, but again, he didn’t have to swim for eight hours to save his mates. And yet he did. So thanks, Harvard Swim Team. 

Theresa: You know, and damned if you do damned if you don’t, you might as well do the best that you can to your own moral compass. Yeah. And he did there at that moment. I loved it. Thanks for telling me the story because like, I think I’d heard it in passing. I was like, Kennedy coconut, save life check. Remember anything? No. 

Speaker 4: I thought it was hilarious, but then, then to realize it happened during World War two, I was like, no, I need to know all of it now because it’s, I guess it, I know so much more about the war in Europe than I do the war in the Pacific that I was shocked Kennedy was involved. 

Theresa: I mean, to be fair, we are rather Eurocentric. 

Speaker 4: There you have it. It also hit me like a ton of bricks this morning on my drive to Oracle is thinking about it. Um, we left the fate of the human race in the hands of 20 somethings and it is no wonder all the world saving movies are teenagers. I mean, but that’s war 

Theresa: because once you’re old enough to realize you don’t want to be cannon fodder, you don’t feel the desire to rush into the front line. Yeah, there you have it. Well, if you want to be cannon fodder and forward this to your friends, I mean, I don’t, I don’t know how do you transition past that? Um, you know, honestly, we, if you are ready, butter, if you are reviewing, if you are sharing, like subscribing to this podcast, that does help us. And so that does help our listenership. So, you know, share this with somebody else who is in the butter and coconuts, but doesn’t think this is a cooking podcast. Don’t lie. We’re not here for life. 

Speaker 4: And on that note, we’re not here to offer you recipes. 

Theresa: No, no, no, no. Goodbye.